Real Estate Investing with Charles Karich Part 2


Charles Karich is a local California real estate investor, realtor and broker who has been serving the real estate market for over 43 years. Charles began his journey with Century 21 Masters in Walnut, Ca. before moving on to South Coast Properties.


He was instrumental in building South Hills Properties to one of the leading independently owned non-franchised firms in Southern Charles’ knowledge, expertise and background in the residential resale market are extensive.  Long standing working relationships with banks, financial institutions along with a network of experienced real estate agents have made Charles and South Hills properties a company well known for its exemplary service.


Charles believes in giving back through volunteering and financial supporting local and international charities that includes Habitat for Humanity, the Sheepfold and Royal Family Kids to name a few.  Helping others in need is part of his company’s heritage and a core pillar.


Episode Notes:


Narrator  This is The Norris Group’s Real Estate Investor radio show the award-winning show dedicated to thought leaders shaping the real estate industry and local experts revealing their insider tips to succeed in an ever changing real estate market hosted by author, investor and hard money lender, Bruce Norris.

Bruce Norris  Thanks for joining us. My name is Bruce Norris. And once again, we will be talking to Charles Karcih about all things real estate.  How did how did the game change now? What percentage do you think in that cycle, were still in the house? Say 2000 to 2005. And was the attitude different of the person that was in it after 2008 or nine?

Charles Karich  So, I think the first cycle really was more of a hardship one where people with true hardships, loss of job really, really hardships, illnesses. And then sadly, lots of dysfunction always in under, is embedded in our markets, right? Alcohol, drugs, and this function of just brokenness creates the foreclosures. But that first set was more like that. And then I think the the people that remained in the homes, I think was a totally different feel. This last cycle was really strange, because the first cycle and when I say first I’m referring to the ’90s vs in 2008, through 15, or whatever, that cycle felt totally different than the 90s. The 90s felt true hardships, not all of them, but most of them. This new one, I remember their first REO this person had a nice home and believe it was Lakewood had a Lexus in the front driveway of the house, hadn’t, I think he used 80/20. So, he had zero money down 100% financing lived there for two or three years. And then the bank had us giving him a check for I think it was eight or 10 or $12,000. As he took it and backed away. It just didn’t feel the same. In the 90s. I remember there was one family, it just breaks your heart and he say ‘I may have lost my home. But I haven’t lost my dignity.’ And they’re cleaning the home before they give us the key.

Bruce Norris  Wow.

Charles Karich  So, yeah, those are their true hardships. I’ll tell you this last cycle. And I know there are two hardships in this last cycle. Don’t get me wrong. But there was a huge percent, maybe 80 or 90% of the foreclosures were 100% financing.

Bruce Norris  Right. But also the attitude, and that was why I wanted to get to the, to the attitude change of the occupant in a lot of cases. Because we dealt with that cycle as well. They, they felt that they deserve something that…

Charles Karich  I think was broadcast out, and in the olden days, we would.. And I’m trying to remember, I think we give 500 or 1000 for, for relocation assistance. We used to call it cash for keys or…

Bruce Norris  Right.

Charles Karich  Then adjusted for inflation. I don’t think it would be… I, I’ve seen where we’ve been told to offer 20 or 30,000 for cash for keys relocation assistance, which would let’s just say that was on a $600,000 house, that’d be fine back a 5% down payment. And if we were to 50 before, and we’re giving $1500 or $500. What’s that percentage only about 3%? So or 2%? But…

Bruce Norris  Yeah, change the attitude, change the numbers changed. What about the difficulty in getting people out of the house? So, let’s say when you buy a trustee sale, and there’s a, there’s an occupant, does the eviction process get more difficult in the last cycle as opposed to the other one?

Charles Karich  Yeah, this, this, this current cycle is so hard. The first cycle it felt like we had more laws to protect the banks, the owners. The property rights were with the property owners This one is completely pendulum swung to the other where it seems like the people that don’t own the property have all the rights and the people that own the property don’t have the rights. And one thing that was really tricky for us to navigate in ’08 we passed the protected, PTA I think Protection Tenancy Act, where that was the first kind of change in the legislation that really started to impact what we did where it stated before. If a property foreclosed, it would sever all contracts on it with the previous owner because the previous owner no longer owned it, but with the Protect the Tenancy Act during Obama’s administration, it created a situation where even after the foreclosure if the tenant could show a bonafide lease at fair market value, and the new purchaser would have to honor that. So, we kind of became strange where you didn’t really know what you’re buying into. If somebody is there, and they show a lease, it had to be fair market. So, there were some things built into it. But it’s just, I’ve had, our eviction attorney is told us now, he’s pretty much retiring, it’s just getting so difficult and feeling like our courts have swung the other way to where the property owners just don’t have any rights. And the sad thing is, everybody understands, it has to be done in a legal proper manner, and our systems built that way with proper notices. Way more advanced information, uh, notification, nobody’s getting thrown out on the street in 24 hours or anything crazy like that. We already have that built in. But now, I think the housing providers or the landlords, they’re not all these big hedge funds. The majority are smaller companies, somebody that maybe wasn’t professional and saved all their life to have a duplex to have extra income, or even my brothers in construction kept his old home. And now they’re being basically told, gosh, you, your rights, they can live there. They don’t have to. It’s just really hard. It’s really hard, so…

Joey Romero  Just, just a, just a quick anecdote, I was having a conversation with some investors that you guys both know. And he was prepared to offer up to $25,000 for cash for keys. But the number that the tenant came back with was 100,000. He said, I’ll leave if you give me $100,000. And at that point, he was like, You know what? I’m not giving you anything. We’ll just we’ll, we’ll see you in court.

Charles Karich  Yeah.

Bruce Norris  Well, you know, this is the thing when you go down that when you go down that slide, it’s hard to, it’s hard to reverse that, because people have this sudden expectation that they’re on something. That’s just, it’s a little bit scary. We dealt with, I dealt with my first, when he, was it was a meeting where there was attorneys for the person that had lost the home and couple. It was a lender and a trustee sale anyway, was about a settlement procedure for somebody that hadn’t made a payment on for three years. And the settlement was procedured to give them extra money. For some reason, I was astonished that I was invited to it. I’m like, ‘What?’ So, yeah, that’s, that’s what happens. Again, I want to ask one other question. And that’ll lead into what we’re doing, what’s going on right now? In 2000, let’s say, wait, let’s say 91 through 96, or seven, was your relationship with, with the lenders at that point different than what it could be in 2008 to 2012? Okay, I got the idea. There was a lot more loyalty to your ability in the first segment, and not so much in the second one.

Charles Karich  Yes, we didn’t have a computer in between us. We had belly to belly relationships. And now we have a computer between us. Which part of is good, part of it’s not. I’m going to share a story about the automation. And I know it’s a double edged sword. It’s good and it’s bad. And it’s good. We can do more. It’s bad. I think the relationships are, are not the same. I have two ideas, two thoughts come to mind. I have one property in the same area of Philips Ranch, we bought it the trustee sale another with the bank. This is their new system now fully automated it’s about in 2011. They are both vacant, both came in at about the same time within a couple of days. Ours that we can run the racetrack as fast as we knew because we knew what we were doing, had a rekeyed, cleaned the trash, listed before we even got a rekey task on the other property. And so this technology, in, I remember the very beginning onset of about 2006. We work with Fidelity National Asset Management Services. And they were a big outsourcer, they gave us a property and I’d know them from another company they had come from before and all the key people when we got a property and we read it, and it was all new. There’s computer work for us on it. We did everything we’re supposed to do. So, I thought all the task all the way through And we sold it in record time, and higher than our value price are right at our marks all through. And it was about three months later. And I said, we’re not getting any properties. And we, we exceeded everything. I know we did a tremendous job. And summarize, we need to see what’s going on. And I call the asset manager, a friend of mine that I had known for 15 years before that, or 10, 10 years, five or 10 years before that and I said to her, ‘What, what do we do?’ And she said, ‘Well, you failed.’ We do. She said, ‘You forgot, you guys didn’t check occupancy. Every, every week when it was an eviction.’ I’m like, oh my gosh, I didn’t even know we were supposed to do that. But I said we sold this for 102% in 13 days and on and on and on. She said, ‘Well you’re you’re you’re right.’ And she said let me do this *tink, *tink *tink on the computer. She went, she said, I think I can fix some of this for you, this extenuating circumstance and at least get you up to a grade where you can start getting properties again. And how do we not have that relationship? How do I know… We did everything right and missing those checks who was still in eviction, it did not change a thing because that property set in there until the attorney showed up and we were there at court and did everything we were supposed to do. We just didn’t drive by, drive by every week and input that we were supposed to do that. And how to not know, we would have never got another property again from them. But back in, and that was this last cycle, the one before they would have known, ‘Hey! you’re a good broker!’ Or they would have picked up the phone. So, totally, totally, totally different.

Bruce Norris  Okay. All right, let’s, let’s talk about this market now. Basically. What are your… How most. How’s most of your time is spent? I know you have a rental portfolio. Are you still a broker for clients and selling homes, that’s part of what you do still?

Charles Karich  Yeah, I still do. We’re really, I’m kind of little battle weary, Bruce, after 33 years. I have been doing some different ministry work, which is really my heart. And I’ve downsized the real estate business. We’re not working for the banks. I don’t see that coming back. I’m not sure if I want to do that again. Maybe? Maybe not? We, the hard thing is we still have tremendous relationships with companies that go back from their company before their new company or their old company that’s no longer. So, we have 25 year relations almost with some of these companies. So, I still even wonder, with all of that. What we’re gonna do with that, but we do still do a little bit of real estate, not a lot. I just listed a friend’s home, which is this is keep good timing, because I listed it on Friday, this last Friday, and I can kind of tell you what’s happened, just unbelievable. We listed it which I thought was overpriced to begin with. Should have, I think Ben about 750. We listed it at 779. That was Friday, only four days ago, so five days ago, and we already have five offers on it. One in this house. It’s a 1950s home. And my friend’s parents home that no longer the passed away. It was a rental for a while and they decided to sell it. It’s a date and time capsule. They haven’t done anything to it. It still has the blue tile in the bathtub. It has the pink tile in the bathroom. Their original intercom in the kitchen. I tried to get the radio to work but I don’t know if that worked. But it did turn on. And no air conditioning, the old stove it’s still in place. They did replace the roof they put a concrete tile roof but no AC, no nothing. And it’s already blown up to where we have an 810 offer on it. We’re gonna give it, I believe… Have you ever watched the Most Deadliest Catch, Bruce?

Bruce Norris  Yeah.

Charles Karich  You know how they soak the pots?  I had to give it proper soak time. Well same with the real estate. You got to keep a certain amount of time on the, on the market. It’s, I tell my my sellers as well as the buyers. It’s not a race for the first one. We’re gonna give it at least a week, soak time market time and get the offers and then once we get the offers, then we’ll collectively review them and go back there right now today, Wednesday. So really, it’s only been on the market since four or five days now. Friday. We’re going to make the determination what to do, but we already have five offers on it and one at a 10 so I’m seeing a variance one is 10% another is a another is 50% down. Another is cash. So we have a whole gamut of different offers. So my friend I was talking to you, you may know Larry Harmon. Yeah, sure. He’s kind of the king of Bellflower a good friend of mine, we go hunting together. And I was asking him I wanted to see cuz he’s got lines in the water to how it’s going in, in response to this talk to with you. And he was telling me about a property that he listed in Irvine. And I just could not believe what he was telling me. He said same thing that he listed it, he felt like he listed it overpriced. And he said every 15 minutes, they had people lined up and over the weekend, he said they had 75 to 80 people waiting in line to go see it. And he told me right now in Irvine, if you’re not asking over about 150,000 over list price, you’re not going to get the property. And another thing that I asked him about inventory levels, because he’s really keen on keeping good track of inventory levels. And what he told me about the inventory levels in Bellflower, that is where he’s at, and also in Lakewood. Here’s some inventory numbers. He told me, he can’t remember, and he’s been in real estate about 20 years. But…

Bruce Norris  Yup.

Charles Karich  …REMAX guys is really, really a good guy, a great, great broker. And I think I can remember higher inventory levels than this, but this one he told me specifically in these two cities that he can remember that there used to be about 190 homes for sale in Bellflower. You know how many are there listed now in the entire city right now in Bellflower?

Bruce Norris  15?

Charles Karich  Eight. And then in Lakewood he told me he can remember inventory levels about as high as 250 homes. Guess how many listed now? 22!

Bruce Norris  90%? Yeah.

Charles Karich  They’re on 90%, so…

Bruce Norris  Well, let me ask that the reason I asked that is to ask this;  what would have happened to the same listing one year ago?

Charles Karich  One year ago. So, we were in. We were just, and you and I talked about this.

Bruce Norris  Yeah.

Charles Karich  A couple months ago. So, here we are February 24. We’re just pulling out of a weird market because I mentioned you in 2019, in the fall of 2019. Our market kind of hit a break. I remember we had one great property we couldn’t even get him pulling into go look at it. And it was right off the main Santa Anita Avenue in Arcadia with through our open house signs and nobody, we’d have open house days. This was in November, October, not one person would show up. When November, December, January, crickets crickets crickets crickets. And then right around mid January, it started getting strong. And then things started to get pretty strong. Then COVID hit. And then things just went quiet for a bit but just exploded.

Bruce Norris  Yeah.

Charles Karich  And the inventories as you said. The older people I think felt more worried about COVID. So, they took their homes off at the same time the younger people felt they can still buy. And so, you have this huge inventory drop. But the weird thing is 2019 in the fall, it started to slow down. It did start to pick it up, now with or without COVID is the question what would have happened to our market in 2020, last year after, after the Super Bowl is typically when we kick, kick off and really take off in mid February on. Now we’re skewed because of COVID. What would happen? Were we on the cusp of it racing off? It started to get stronger. I don’t know. We will never know.

Bruce Norris  Well what’s interesting about you know, when you pay attention to charts, if you look at inventory levels and say all of 2019 they weren’t high.

Charles Karich  No.

Bruce Norris  They were, they were reasonable. You had no competition from foreclosures and short sales.

Charles Karich  That’s right.

Bruce Norris  So, you and you had a very mild sales number of about 400,000 which was consistent like for the last eight years, so there was nothing, nothing special about the volume and you know, in my head, you start playing with this, okay, best, really best set of charts I’ve ever seen. No reaction by the buying public. So, I started thinking okay, maybe we have what I call in capable demand. They want it but they can’t get it whether it’s college debt, or they can’t qualify whatever I thought it’s maybe it’s in capable demand. And then two or three months after Coronavirus hits, you find out wasn’t in capable It was quite capable. And they all said we’ll take, let’s take one, even if we have to pay a bonus for it. So, it’s very interesting to watch this happen and, and to, and to analyze, is it going to continue? Because, like what you just said, if you have 500,000 sale demand, placed on top of a month inventory, there’s no doubt what’s going to happen to price. That’s a lot of demand.

Charles Karich  That’s right. I have noticed in my years of doing this, though, as Americans, we like to think linear. But it’s not always a straight line up, or a straight line down. And we can have spits and fits and spits and fits, and then it goes, and then it comes and goes and goes, and back and back and forth. But we’re in a certain direction. And that’s what I’ve seen over the years in the real estate, that we have times where it does start to cool, you actually get a little nervous. And then six months later, wow, that’s just where did it and all of a sudden, so it’s kind of a not an accordion, but imagine this. And so, I’m not sure if COVID was the accelerant or not. But I do think, as you mentioned a lot that our market, and I’m not sure if you still are thinking like this, rises and falls on the 17% affordability. And last I checked, you know this way more than me, we’re not sure what it is now 28? 26%, which if you do the math, that’s about 40%, away from 17%. So, I’m thinking, as you would say, between the combination of interest rate or price increases, or just straight price increase, we still have a lot way to go, before we run out of enough people to afford to buy homes.

Bruce Norris  Yeah, if that, if that form is going to remain true. But see what was also interesting. When we, when we did a report in the first part of 2020, I’m looking at the best set of charts and no reaction price wise. And you’re going okay, well, that’s a first. In other words, we’ve never had this set of charts and not had a 15% year. So, if you can’t go up with these set of charts, what happens when they go up, the negative happens just a little, you have some foreclosures. So, you have so you could make a case and that’s, that’s where I went, I thought, okay, because we’re legitimately not going anywhere, we’re not having the big four years of boom sales at 500,000, then we escalate up to that we’re, we’re bouncing along as if no one cares about housing. So, but once we got down to a month of inventory, and everything that’s up in up for sale was getting attacked with offers, then you go okay, if you’re going to have that kind of demand on this kind of amount of homes available, then it’s locked and loaded, you’re going to go up in price. Now, what we talked about in the in the part of the report that we just gave is the warning sign of what’s not in control of the real estate. And I, in doing some research for a radio interview we did with Matt, Matt and Amanda. They’re accountants, and I did some research and found out that 40% of the of the tax tab, the income tax tab is paid by one half of a percent of the household.

Charles Karich  Wow.

Bruce Norris  I mean, I, the way I thought about that is have a room full of 200 people, and one of them gets up and uses, uses a restroom.

Charles Karich  Wow.

Bruce Norris  That’s 40% of the tab is that household, okay? So, if you’re going to raise taxes, you have to go after that group, it has the biggest impact. However, they also have a lot of flexibility. So if you, you know, you start thinking about what’s likely, I think you probably have a federal tax increase, you probably could have a state tax increase, they’re talking about doing that, for that that group, the group that makes over $5 million. And you start talking about other things like a wealth tax, or bringing back the Social Security tax over 100 or 400 grand of income, you start doing the math of that you think, okay, you start taxing these people at 60% or more of their income, they may find a reason not to be here. So, California, I think has got to be really careful about how they raise taxes on that group that could most hurt them if they left.

Charles Karich  I totally agree in this I was talking to Larry about as they raise federal tax, it kind of has a double multiplier on the state tax because…

Bruce Norris   Absolutely.

Charles Karich  …what you’re left with is only half. And if we’re in a state, such as California, where it’s over 10%, then you’re not talking about 10% on 100, you only get to keep half so that’s 10% on 50%, which is 20%.

Bruce Norris  Yeah.

Charles Karich  So, that is a big motivator, you’re gonna lose 20% of your income. Unless you go to another, you could go to another state for I know you like which has no income tax in other states, some don’t either and other states much lower as well. So, federal income tax goes up. It can be a bigger and bigger driver. What I’ve noticed over the years, these days feeder states, whatever, not feeder, but exit states, whatever you want to call them, where they’re going different places, do these particular states, I’ve noticed, as long as we’re going out, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, those states go really well. I invested in Idaho back in ’93, I still have those properties. And we, as we were going to, though, that was different. Yeah, it was strange, we were kind of going down now that I think of it and people were moving out. And that state was doing really well. But I did notice that I’ve seen notice that these states do really well, because they can take all this equity and go home, we slow down, I guess it’d be a different impact for them, they’re gonna slow down as well.

Bruce Norris  We did a report in 2005. And we figured out the migration patterns from California out, and when it occurred. So, you’re right, it’s those states, get recipient, get the people that leave California, because the money goes so much further there for quite a while. So, now Idaho gets an impact of that, but now they’re going up in price. So, it’s, if you stop feeding Californians in there, then the person that’s in Idaho doesn’t probably want to keep that price going very long. But if you’re coming from California and selling a million dollar house, that hasn’t been painted in 40 years, you know, that, that goes a long way than Idaho.

Charles Karich  That’s right. And I think we bring our California mindset to these other states and everything seems to be on sale, and then that kind of helps to fuel this price it , yeah, the actual people that live there don’t like it. It makes it unaffordable for him. But if we leave on the bookings of our country, New York or California, everywhere else we go seems almost everywhere else we go seems it’s on sale for the real estate. So, yeah, that mindset is, yeah, excuse the prices and these other states, I do believe that.

Bruce Norris  One last thing, we’re gonna have to wrap up here pretty soon. But you know, right now, 90-day lates for mortgages are as high as they were in 2008.

Charles Karich  Wow. Wow. Wow.

Bruce Norris  So, I just, you know, since you’re in the, you’re kind of a connector between the lending world and have you, have you heard any input from the lenders that get ready for some volume? Or do you think they’re going to handle it a very different way?

Charles Karich  I’ve heard some conflicting reports, I’ve heard this was a while back, the lenders don’t really want to be in the headlines of the liability of these properties. So, they may just reduce them with the sale, which would sell a third party, which still would turn into a listing later, probably not nearly as distressed, as you mentioned, because the investor is going to fix it up and make it nice, but some of the banks do fix them up and make them nice as well. But I think the properties, and the NODs, increasing like that? I don’t think they’re going to hit the market anytime soon. This in California, really with our legislation. And I think with the pause and the moratorium, and as you’ve said so many times, Bruce, there’s so many more tools, they have the short sale, the modification, and we’re in the forbearance world, my question would be to you with all these lates. Do they count forbearances lates? If people are taking a pause, are those counted in there? Or is that a separate category?

Bruce Norris  Yeah, you know, I think kind of to wrap up the whole discussion, I think this time is going to be very different than last time. Because, especially because a lot of this wasn’t self induced by something that they did. In other words, okay, I lost my job, because the restaurant I work closed, etc. So, I think there’s going to be a lot of forbearance that’s going to be just, you know, what, we’re not going to worry about that patch your credit. And we’re also going to tack the what’s ever not been paid on the back of the loan. And you’re all set. I mean, honestly, that’s probably the least damaging thing the lenders can do. Because we also have had recent lessons, I mean, 2008 and ’09 and ’10 was a lesson on how not to do it if you want to actually not get wiped out at a, at a trustee sale and get 25 cents, 30 cents on the dollar off of what the peak price was, as you know, you know that trustee sales or REOs, were going for something like 70, 80% off.

Charles Karich  Right. I think with the forbearance, putting it on the back end, it makes a lot of sense. My question is, with all these people not used to making a payment for six months or a year when you turn the switch back on, even if they don’t make their arrears, which they won’t, but they’re told after resume, they’re 16, 2200, whatever it is payment, do they have the discipline to rise back up there, or are they going to struggle or have their expenses already risen as though they don’t have a payment? They’ve had a habit now for six months or a year, and now they’re told they have to resume again. Are they going to be okay? I’m wondering about that.

Bruce Norris  Yeah, well, I think the renter would answer that differently than a homeowner. I think a homeowner is going to say ‘it’s back on I gotta pay’ where I think you could have a fair amount of renters say, ‘okay, where’s the back door? I’ll go rent something else and see if I don’t have to make up 10 grand that I don’t have’, you know, that’s going to be much more difficult chase, in my opinion.

Charles Karich  Right.

Bruce Norris  Now you you’ve got a fair amount of rentals, what percentage aren’t making payments? I would imagine most of them are.

Charles Karich  Most of them are making payments, we’re really blessed. They are, we have a couple properties that are struggling a bit and make sense. They’re, where they employment came from. But the majority are making good on their commitments. And we try and be a really great provider and really great landlord, and I think they’ve reciprocated. We have some good long-term tenants. And so…

Bruce Norris  Yeah.

Charles Karich  Yeah.

Bruce Norris  You probably did, you probably did what I did. As soon as this happened, I called up the property managers. I just told him, I said, if someone legitimately loses their position, then let’s have a discussion, not an eviction. We’ll figure it out, you know.

Joey Romero  It sounds like, that sounds like a great question for our next guest, Bruce, David Kittle. We’re going to be interviewing from the mortgage collaborative. So, we’ll make sure we ask those questions that you just asked. What, can I ask a question, though? You know, one of our, almost our mission here is, you know, to help investors build wealth and legacy through real estate. So, I imagine being in the game this long, you know, you’re you’ve got some substantial means. So, what what is the legacy piece for you? Like, what, what, where’s, you know, what are you gonna leave behind? what’s what’s important to you right now?

Charles Karich  Oh, I love that, Joey, I really do. I really do. I believe, for us a good year is how much we make, a good year is how much we could, we give away. That, to me determines if it’s a good year or not. And I really believe for me in my business. The reason that I’ve been successful is because I put God first and then my family, and then my business. And there’s a famous quote, by Jim Elliot, he was the one who died by the tip of the spear in Ecuador he’s a missionary there. And you guys may have heard it before. But I really love it. It says “he is no fool, who gives what he cannot keep to gain, what he cannot lose.” And I think for me, this, this business has been such a tremendous vehicle to be able to bless other people, and ministries and different places and people and things and it’s just been incredible. My heart leaps when, we’re able to do that, in this business, I’ve been able to give more than a year away than ever thought I could make in a year. So, that is kind of the legacy of, of what I want. I have friends in different parts of the world and different ministries that we support, as well as locally. I’m on some boards have different ministries now. And I just really want to finish well, I really do. And give hope to people that there’s more in our life than just this, this material part and that, for me, my relationship with God is what’s most important. And that’s the legacy. I want to leave that. That, yeah, I used what I had to advance his kingdom and bless other people around me. And I may have told this to Bruce, but God’s shovel is much bigger than our shovel. And that’s what I just try and live in like Bruce, I love Bruce, such a man of integrity. a breath of fresh air. I love him. I really have been so blessed and it’s just an honor even to be on here and I will say really quick words. It’s really funny. I was listening to your Radio Podcast hearing Ward Hannigan speak. I really wish Bruce would ask me some time to talk. I never told you that a week later, which was he calls I thought it was you but Joey called.

Bruce Norris  I want to tell you, I want to tell you a funny story about Ward Hannigan. I had never I had heard of him but I had never met him. And I went down to take, I think he is trust class. You know, I didn’t know what a property trust was Land Trust. So, he had a four hour course I went down there. So, when I meet him, he shakes my head is said ‘Hi, I’m Ward Hannigan. I’m an atheist.’ That was his first. Well, now during and by the way he acts, he acts more Christian than most people I know by far he’s just got a great deal of integrity. But what was kind of funny is that during the four hours that I got to know him, his son had fallen off of a bike and injured his head and he had a concussion and a coma. And so, as I leave them after four hours, I give him a hug. I said, God bless. And then I, when I went to the car, I was thinking, that may be the only time in my life that will be inappropriate.

Charles Karich  I don’t think it’s ever inappropriate. But anyways, I hope I answered your question, Joey, but…

Joey Romero  Oh, absolutely.

Bruce Norris  Yeah, I think…

Joey Romero  Thank you.

Bruce Norris  I think so. All right, Charles. Great to see you again. We’ll have to get together next. Next time I come to California to make sure we get together okay?

Charles Karich  Oh, thank you guys. God bless you guys. Thank you so much.

Narrator  For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with The Norris Group, check out For information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit

Aaron Norris  The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669.  For more information on hard money lending, go and click the Hard Money tab.




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