Tommy Williams

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Posts Tagged ‘Tommy Williams’

By Bruce Norris Bruce Norris.

263-TNG Radio – Mike Novak-Smith and Ted Boeker 2-04-12

Friday, February 3rd, 2012

Mike Novak-Smith

REO agent

RE/Max

Ted Boeker

Owner and Broker

RE/Max

This week Bruce Norris is joined by Mike Novak-Smith and Ted Boeker. Mike Novak-Smith is not only one of the largest REO agents in the Inland Empire, but the nation. Mike is in the top 1% of all real estate agents nationwide and is experienced in REO, short sales, bankruptcies, asset management, and negotiating. Mike specializes in REOs in Riverside, Moreno Valley, San Bernardino, Perris, Rialto, Colton, and Corona. Ted Boeker is the owner of the company that Mike is at and has brokered for RE/Max Results in Moreno Valley. Having started the company in 1989, Ted has vast experience in real estate and has been able to train and lead 35 of Southern California’s highest producing real estate brokers and agents to close deals quickly and efficiently for a variety of clients in commercial, residential, multifamily, and office real estate. Nationwide Home Loans Inc. and RE/Max Results escrow division are associated companies. Before that, Ted practiced law.

Ted opened a business in 1989, which was a peak year. Things changed radically after this, and Bruce wondered if this was something that as a part of his business model he saw changing very quickly or if it surprised him. Ted said he would love to say he foresaw a lot of things, but he really did not see much coming. He had come out of commercial real estate, which died after the 1986 Tax Reform Act; and he said there was nothing in commercial to do so he should look at residential. It looked attractive at the time, but he never dreamed they would see the ups and downs that they have. Ted said it was probably good to start when he did because it did steal him through some of the early tough times. The flexibility of a business model all of a sudden became absolute. You could not do farming and be surviving in the ‘90s, and you could not do it after 2006 either.

Bruce went to a meeting at Ted’s company where he talked, and remembered prior to the meeting when they were talking about volume of sales. They were talking about the number of closings that Mike had and the other people who were ahead. Bruce also envisioned a meeting he was not at in 2006 where everybody is doing pretty well, and he wondered how you tell somebody that is doing well that their model is about to radically change and they have to do it before it actually happens. Ted said it is not easy as real estate agents are a wide variety of people, some well educated and others not so much. The biggest example is 3 years ago Ted started harping on short sales, being able to hopefully foresee what was coming. However, agents two years ago said Ted was crazy and they were not going to do what he was talking about. Ted said today about 40% of his sales are short sales. The agents who refused it are probably gone, and the ones who embraced it are doing relatively well to the marketplace. There are not a lot of easy commission checks anywhere.

Mike has been involved in the REO listing side for 21 years. The first REO ever listed was in January 1991. He worked at a Century 21 Office where they could not give away the REO. It basically paid 5% commission instead of 6%. He made a referral, but he was number 9 one the list; so when they finally got to him he knew the economy was declining. The Persian Gulf War had started, and things were tough. He thought if he could do the deal at 2% he could still make the house and car payments and could eat another month. This was why he carried out the deal. Anybody that declined the deal at the time is no longer in the business. Prior to doing the REOs, Mike’s business model was to show up at a Century 21 office and try to live off the floor time and advertise, which he did well. People would just walk in and say they wanted to buy or sell a house and you wrote up the deal. It was easy. Mike also started in 1989 at the very peak year and then quickly transitioned into unknown territory. The 90s was not replicated and it was not the normal downturn. In the ‘80s we had the radical interest rate change, but we did not have a price decline because we were able to borrow the cheap financing and move it forward to other buyers. In the 90s we took a 5% gradual decline every year for a while, and this was news to everyone who owned California real estate.

Bruce wondered how the 2006-2011 downturns differed from what Ted experienced in the 90s as a business owner. Ted said he did not remember the 90s as well because they never really got up to speed. It took them ten years to get up to a critical mass of agents and holding on through the tough times. The early 2000s were good, and then the falloff was a real shock. When they saw the change in 2008, it was the big change for them. In 2008 and 2009 they had a lot of REOs, and then nothing for two years. This is the biggest challenge he has ever had. They have really been able to tighten up and cut out expenses, but that is the key.

As far as the cycles went, Mike said in the 90s he could predict better what was going to happen. He could see the start and the end game. Now it just seems like it is never going to end. It was easier back then to predict your business than compared to now. You get a lot of curve balls today that you did not get then. As far as quantity of listings in this current cycle, Mike said the peak year for him and for everybody in general was 2008. We did not have the government intrusion that we had in the last 3 years, and this is a big frustration.

Bruce wondered what the following years as far as percentages went after 2008 if that year was a 100% year. Mike said in 2008 it went down about 20% for him and 60% in ’10. In ’11, it picked up a little bit but still went down about 50%. Bruce also wondered if anybody on the lender side is saying to either Mike or Ted that they will not be releasing so many or if they are always telling them to step up. What he heard for a long time was to maintain the staff and not cut anybody back, and this was kind of a mistake. He carried too much overhead through a lot of 2010, and he finally decided he was going to have to cut it back. He is okay with not making any money sometimes, but he hates having to feed it. Now he has the right amount of staff, and if they pay attention and operate well, they can make money. When you talk to asset management, the general opinion of people is they do not want to sit there and say they are not going to have a job. They believe it is going to pick up and they are going to have REOs to sell so they will have a job. He believes this is what a lot of it comes down to overall, and he does not believe anybody can predict what is going to happen. They are probably not at the policy decision level. With someone in Mike’s position, one of the nation’s largest, he would probably feel that he has access to somebody inside actually telling him the real scoop. However, this does not happen. Mike said he does know some people way up the food chain from various REO organizations, and even they cannot tell you what is going to happen.

Mike’s REO business peaked in 2008 when we had about a 3.4% delinquency rate, and we went up to 11.2%. Mike’s peak of foreclosures resulted from a 3.2% delinquency, and then we tripled. The amount of REOs he probably should have been handling should have been some gigantic percentage above the peak and its decline. The shadow inventory term is real, but it is not where people think it is. Mike’s opinion of what shadow inventory is the process that is not being finished. There are a lot of defaults going on, but the timeframe between when somebody misses the first payment to the time they foreclose is probably in many cases 18 months to 2 years. He asks a lot of people how long since they made their payment and this is the answer he usually gets. He rarely gets anybody less than a year; but he thinks the whole process has just slowed down, and this is your shadow inventory. It is not like the banks are sitting on millions of houses they own; they just don’t finish the foreclosure. Bruce wondered if there is a valid reason why they don’t do this, and Mike said part of the reason is if they just foreclosed every which way they could, they would not have the capability to handle the property. He hears of agents telling him they are in a really bad situation and don’t even want to foreclose because they do not want the house back. They don’t want to be responsible for the code liens and the taxes.

Bruce said what is interesting to him is somebody always tells him that the lenders are too smart in regards to carrying out foreclosures, but in 2008 they did exactly what they should not have done. They foreclosed on properties aggressively, and we ended up with something like 17 months of inventory and a price decline of about 3 or 4% a month. Once you are there on that low level of price and everybody is upside down; it is much easier to make a decision to walk when you have negative 50% equity. When the civil Code 1169 came into effect in California, you could be fined $1,000 a day if you are the lender owning the property or a trustee sale buyer owning a property. They have someone come out and visit your place, and you have a week or two to fix whatever they are going to see.

When Mike resells REOs, Bruce wondered if there was a big problem with liens that had been placed on the property. Mike said they have a lot of problems with liens. He has a full-time employee whose job is dealing with liens, code violations, and HOA problems. Part of the problem with a lot of the banks is they do not have the internal staff anymore to handle these problems. It used to be they had attorneys on staff that would fix a lot of the code violations and a lot of the liens, and now a lot of that is not done. We do not figure it out until we start marketing the property and they come up. He said he fronts a lot of money to pay code violations and liens because typically the agents expect you to pay them and then be reimbursed. They are on it full-time, checking properties every day as he does not want any code violations and does not want to front the money for it. It is a lot bigger problem than it once was.

Bruce wondered what percentages of his listings were occupied by somebody at the end of the foreclosure process, which Mike said was about 75%. The attitude of the person behind the door is usually bewilderment as they wonder how something like this could happen, and most of these people are tenants of the former borrower. They did not know they were about to be asked to go.

On the topic of Cash for Keys, once this type of thing happens it becomes a street lore and urban legend. You can go ahead and ask for cash for keys, plus with some of the clients they are told how much cash for keys is going to be. A large problem Mike has is a lot of clients are very generous with cash for keys and some are not. Many of them ask why they only receive $1500 when their friend received $8,000. Bruce said if the Learning Annex was still in business, he could be almost certain there was a class held at night. The Cash for Keys is a big deal, but the offers vary a lot, and this can cause some problems. Bruce wondered if it has to do with the size of the loan or just the motivation of the lender, to which Mike said it is the latter. The more well known you are today as a lender, the more you want to pay.

Bruce wondered how big of a problem MERS robo-signing presented to California lenders. Mike said he has not seen much of it where it was a problem. He does believe with a lot of their deals a lot of the loans are in pools and portfolios, and sometimes they get slowed down because someone is going to check the whole portfolio, whether most of the loans are in Chicago or Florida. Sometimes this will slow them down. Something that was originally going to close, for example, in January will not close until March. However, the bigger issue is they are in a mix of properties.

On the myth of bulk sales and bulk REO listings, Bruce said he has only fallen victim to this one time as he went around an looked at 100 houses in two days to get his piece of the dream. However, there have been people who spent a year and ruined themselves by following something that seemed imminent that they were going to cash in on 100 houses. Mike does deal with a lot of REOs, and Bruce wondered if he has dealt with successful bulk deals in California only. He said Fannie Mae and several others do pool sales and advertise for it, but it is usually beyond the capability of the small investors. It does happen, but where he gets the calls is from some person who wants to buy ten houses in bulk, and the problem with that is with many of the lenders there are ten different investors on the deals. It is not the same real seller when you get down to the bottom line. Bruce wondered if he feels there are sufficient properties going that route that it affects the volume that they see, but Mike said this was not the case.

Another topic is bulk note sales, where you have big companies buy thousands of loans at a shot. Bruce wondered if this is significant in its impact in the REO listings. Mike said he is not sure he has seen them, even if it is possible they are going on. You do not see them in California has much as you see them in other places. In Orange County, there is a company in Irvine that buys very large pools, but the majority of the loans are not in California yet. Even if the purchaser received 60% off of the face, it would be hard to say that there would be a lot of room.

Bruce was a moderator of a panel on bulk buying that HousingWire.com had a couple years ago. He was very fascinated with the concept and thought it could really happen to somebody. Of the three, one of the companies that was on the panel was capable of buying 1,000 homes in a very short notice was Williams and Williams Auction Company. Bruce knew Tommy Williams personally, so he talked to him, the person he thought would really know. Having auctioneers all over the country, their infrastructure is such that they literally could get a 1,000 property listing within two or three days, legitimately see every one of them, and come to a number. They had not bought a property in a year, so they had the capacity, but there was not any inventory that was going that route in that kind of volume. Bruce just heard of another scenario yesterday about a bulk sale from one particular lender, so it is such a great theory. However, Ted said somebody actually has to go out and look at the properties to make sure they are even there. Ted said they have had REOs they have gone out to look at that are not even there and had burned down about a year earlier.

It seems one of the things RE/Max would really have a grasp on is how much infrastructure there is as far as capacity to move inventory already in place. They do not have to invent a thing. Bruce wondered how many more listings they could have, if they could have a multiple of 300-400% alone. This is replicated everywhere. Someone could drop a lot of properties into the United States REOs, and it would get absorbed by current staff. Another option is trained staff is added, and this would make more sense more than selling thousands of homes to a hedge fund. There were couple of things in a report Bruce read, and one of the things was doing a big bulk deal. A couple days later he saw a headline for a $650 million pool by one of the well known big companies that they were going to buy REOs and retain them as rentals. This sounds significant until you look at the numbers of how much debt there is in excess. You basically have a $3 trillion problem when you start throwing $50 million at it and see how it is such an insignificant thing. In short of saying they are going to forgive everybody, whoever owes more than their house is worth, we are probably in for a long haul. There is really no end in sight and no end game. Neither is there a change in the aggression of lenders saying they should cut to the chase and take all the REOs back. If a lot of the houses were sold to hedge funds, they would be a lot more aggressive because they would not care about their name being drug through the mud. They do not have a public name or a retail presence, and this is most likely part of the reason why things are slow in some cases.

One of the suggestions in the white report was getting a deed in lieu of foreclosure and giving the people right to buy the property back some years later. Bruce wondered what their thoughts were on the same owner returning as owner at a later time. However, Ted said this is silly. Once a person has given up on the property as we have seen and stopped making payments a year or two earlier, when you go to that person see them start making payments again, that person just laughs at the agents in charge. Bruce does not know how you rationalize this with the person next door making payments on the same loan. You start asking yourself if you can get the deal too. Mike and Ted said one of their clients offered the ability for the occupants to lease the property for a year. Mike and Ted said they have started a few of these, but they have yet to see anybody finish before they failed and ended up being evicted. For them, not paying is a good deal and they want it to continue.

Bruce read another news article where they were talking to a family that had not made a payment in a couple years, and it was a very positive experience for them as far as what it did for them financially. If you think about it, they have an expectation that this is okay, and there is an expectation that it is almost sad when it ends. Of the people who have not made a payment in two years, the ones who have saved all the payments is 0%. There is a statistic that 4,100,000 people that are 90 days late or beyond, including REOs, there is only a 1% chance that they will willingly write a check to make it current. 99% of the pile is going to go the route of a lowered opening bid at a trustee sale, a short sale, or an REO.

In RE/Max’s business model, the short sales have really aggressively gained momentum. Bruce wondered if they are ahead of REOs as far as closings. However, Ted and Mike believe they are even. Last year, roughly, they had about 20% normal sales and about evenly divided between short sales and REOs. Bruce has looked at charts for years, and he said he has not come up with a real meaning with what was just said regarding REOs and short sales until recently. When you close 100 sales, only 20 buyers emerge. This really hit Bruce that in the Inland Empire 80% of the closings are either going to be vacant or bought by someone new migrating here or someone in credit damage or investor for cash. This is not a lot of people. Unfortunately, it is many of the people who walked from their homes three years ago and now have repaired their credit and are able to buy again. There are very few of those, but it is shocking in today’s world that the person who did the wrong thing three years ago seems to be saving the system. Had we foreclosed on somebody instead of waiting, the people who are behind by 2 ½ years have not had one day of new credit.

Tune in next week as Bruce continues his interview with Mike Novak-Smith and Ted Boeker. For more information on RE/Max, visit www.remax-results-ca.com/.

For more information about The Norris Group’s California hard money loans or our California Trust Deed investments, visit the website or call our office at 951-780-5856 for more information. For upcoming California real estate investor training and events, visit The Norris Group website and our California investor calendar. You’ll also find our award-winning real estate radio show on KTIE 590am at 6pm on Saturdays or you can listen to over 170 podcasts in our free investor radio archive.

Tags: asset management, bruce norris, bulk note sales, bulk sales, cash for keys, code liens, delinquency, foreclosure, HOA, MERS, Mike Novake Smith, Norris Group real esate raidio show, RE/Max Results, reo, robo-signing, shadow inventory, short sales, Tax Reform Act, Ted Boeker, Tommy Williams
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197-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2010 10-23-10

Friday, October 22nd, 2010

I Survived Real Estate 2010

(Full Bio)

September 17^th, 2010, The Norris Group returns with its award winning event I Survived Real Estate 2010. The video also now available on The Norris Group website.

The Norris Group has assembled an incredible line up of industry experts to discuss the state of REO from the inside. Topics will include regulatory intervention and aftermath, bulk buying, myths and facts, and opportunities emerging for real estate professionals. 100 percent of the proceeds support the Orange County affiliate of Susan G. Komen for the Cure. This event would not be possible without generous help from the following platinum partners: Foreclosure Radar and Sean O’Toole, the San Diego Creative Real Estate Investors Association and Bill Tan, Investors Workshops and Shawn Watkins and Angel Bronsgeest, Invest Club for Women and Iris Veneracion and Bobby Alexander, Claudia Buys Houses, The Business Press, Frye Wiles, MVT Productions, and White House Catering.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show is broadcasting I Survived Real Estate 2010.

Investors buy about 1/3 of Freddie Mac’s properties. Freddie Mac does not offer financing for most of those investor purchases, but Fannie Mae does. Fannie Mae has a program called Home Path. Many investors can qualify for Home Path financing on rehab properties. The financing on the rehab program includes the cost of repair. It is somewhat similar to the 203K loan. The problem Bruce has experienced with these programs is they don’t offer enough financing to significantly help investors. Bruce is usually only offered about $4,000 for rehab financing.

It is hard to pull a pool of properties together in a way that is just as attractive for an investor as finding one good property.

Inventory levels are increasing. Freddie Mac started this year with 45,000 properties in inventory, but today we have about 70,000. 55% of those properties are in the redemption, eviction and prelist phase. That phase is taking longer now. Approximately 55% of Freddie’s properties are becoming occupied. Freddie has about 15,000 homes on the market, and the rest are in the closing process.

As inventory levels increase, and as the 90-day strategies fail, then Freddie might move to a ballroom or online auction. However, if a property has had sale fallouts or could use significant improvement, then it may be relisted. Freddie’s goal is to figure out what selling strategy will have the best recovery rate. On day 75 of the listing, Freddie gives the broker a two week notice, and then moves onto the auction process.

Fannie Mae has a web-based portal for investors who desire to qualify for bulk purchases. You must provide information about yourself, provide your tax I.D. number, and allow Fannie Mae to do a background check on you. Once you qualify, you are given access to the web-based portal. This portal contains listings of properties, and it allows investors to submit a bid. This portal is for the larger pools. The properties in the pool are located across the country.

Bruce believes that tax payers could be saved a lot of money if properties were sold to investors rather than being given to NSP programs. Sarah Letts suggests that those investors go to the auctions.

In the last 12 month, Fannie Mae sold 30,000 properties to owner occupants during the first look period, and 5,000 properties to people using NSP funds.

Tommy Williams was the person who suggested that Bruce should read The World Is Flat. One of the most significant quotes in the book says, “No institution will go through fundamental changes, unless it believes it is in deep trouble and must do something different to survive.” Tommy believes that no other country in the world provides us with the same amount of opportunity as the free enterprise system of the U.S. That opportunity is built upon the initiative of the individual. We need to focus on turning that individual initiative loose. When you restrict individuals from making free market decisions, there are greater repercussions.

Tommy believes in the auction process. The stock market is like an auction, and everybody agrees with that auction every day. What if tomorrow morning, the DOW Jones said, “If Microsoft doesn’t bring us 25 dollars, we won’t sell”? It wouldn’t work. This is the problem we are dealing with in our current housing problem. Three years ago, the market told us that we had to rethink what houses were worth. Unfortunately, we have found out how accurate the market was worth. Tommy Williams believes that Sean O’Toole’s estimates are accurate, but he wises it wasn’t true. Tommy believes we have a long road ahead of us before we reach real market value. The quicker we get to that value, the better.

“Unfortunately, it has been too long since America had a leader ready to call on our nation to do something hard. To give something up, not to get something more, and to sacrifice for a great national cause for the future, rather than live for today.” – The World Is Flat

Tommy believes that if a politician actually had the courage to stand up and tell America the truth, the citizens would elect that person instantly. Unfortunately, we have been given so much bs that we aren’t accustomed to politicians being honest.

A crisis is a terrible thing to waste. We’ve had two in the last decade – 9/11 and the current financial crisis. Bruce has been to baseball games where everyone stood up after the 9/11 crisis. When we have a crisis, we can make changes, but we have to have someone that we can support in the government.

Thornberg is worried about where our fiscal debt is going. We are borrowing $1.3 trillion this year. We do not currently have that much debt, because most of it is in social security. Our net debt represents about 50% of the economy right now. That seems high, but Christopher doesn’t believe that is actually extremely high. However, if you are borrowing $1.3 trillion per year, that debt percentage will quickly turn into a number over 95%. Unlike Japan, we are a nation relying on external capital. If we keep borrowing, there will come a time where the world bond market will say “enough is enough”.

Thornberg does not believe that household, and local debt is that bad. We do not have that big of a debt problem. Our pensions are in trouble, but other than that, Christopher thinks we are fine. Consumer debt spiked in proportion to asset values. It also fell significantly when the asset bubble popped, and Americans realized they had too much debt. Most of American debt is in mortgage debt from Fannie and Freddie. Non-mortgage debt didn’t really rise at all. Overall, that debt is not too significant.

Stock investments have nothing to do with GDP. When we spend stock profits, that money does not get counted into GDP. When you pay taxes on your stock portfolio, those taxes are recorded in GDP statistics, but then they have to subtract your capital gains income from the total.

Thornberg is worried about where our fiscal debt is going, but he is not sure at what point he would say “enough is enough”. We’ve never had an unmanageable amount of debt, but we’ve also never had a government that is so unwilling to acknowledge the reality of our problem. The government claims it wants to fix the deficit, but it won’t raise taxes. Thornberg is a proponent of paying taxes, and he thinks all the Bush tax cuts should be taken out. He doesn’t enjoy paying taxes, but if the citizens of the U.S. actually have to pay, then we will finally stop the government from spending it. We have developed the delusion that the Federal debt is not our debt. If the government is borrowing $1.3 trillion dollars, a lot of that money will come from the citizens. It would take $4,500 from every citizen to pay that debt.

Thornberg does not believe that deleveraging is deflationary, because leveraging is not inflationary. In the middle of the leveraging binge, Alan Greenspan was worried about deflation. When you pay debt off instead of spend, you can decrease demand somewhat. Reducing demand can reduce the velocity of money, which can cause deflationary pressure. That is why Greenspan went through quantitative easing, and he did a pretty good job.

If you have a willing buyer and seller that come to a fair price together, then you have market value. That definition of market value will never be able to stop a real estate bubble. The Norris Group built homes in Rosamond. In Rosamond, the market should have been $150,000, but Bruce was selling those homes for $280,000. In the commercial world, the appraisal has multiple pieces. You have to calculate for comps, cost of building and income generated. Bruce asks Joseph Magdziarz if he thinks we should change the structure of how we come to the proper value. Joseph believes the definition does need to be looked at. During the boom, California prices escalated quickly, but rental prices didn’t change much. So prices changed a lot, but the underlying value didn’t. Unfortunately, the government created too much artificial demand in the market, and that helped cause the market. We created programs for people who couldn’t afford a home.

Thank you for being a Gold Sponsor for I Survived Real Estate 2010: Adrenaline Athletics, Benton Investment Group, Community RE-Invest Group, Delmae Properties, Elite Auctions, Entrust California, Everlast Photography, Inland Empire Investors Forum, Keystone CPA, Landwood Title, Las Brisas Escrow, Leivas Financial Services, Mike Cantu, North San Diego Real Estate Investors Association, Northern California Real Estate Investors Association, Personal Real Estate Investor Magazine, Realty 411 Magazine, San Jose Real Estate Investor Association, Rick and LeeAnne Rossiter, San Jose Real Estate Investor Association, Starz Photography, Summit Solutions, Tony Alvarez, Wealth Point, and Westin South Coast Plaza.

Tags: auction, bubble, debt, fannie mae, freddie mac, gdp, Greenspan, Home Path, inventory, investor, joseph magdziarz, market value, norris group, nsp, properties, property, real estate, rental, Sarah letts, SEAN OTOOLE, The World is Flat, Thornberg, Tommy Williams
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195-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2010 10-09-10

Friday, October 8th, 2010

I Survived Real Estate 2010

(Full Bio)

September 17^th, 2010, The Norris Group returns with its award winning event I Survived Real Estate 2010. The video also now available on The Norris Group website.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show is broadcasting I Survived Real Estate 2010.

We are in a bond bubble. This is what concerns Thornberg the most right now. We had a recent GDP revision. Savings rates are close to where they should be. Employment is flat, but incomes are growing. The panic over a double dip this summer was ridiculous. We are on a path to recovery, but we have created so much fear that we now have a bond bubble. We have ridiculously low rates. The spreads between returns on equities and returns on bonds have never been this wide. Either equities are severely underpriced or bonds are severely overpriced. Thornberg believes the bonds are overpriced, and eventually people will figure that out. If rates shoot up quickly, then we will have a big problem.

Real estate affordability is incredible right now. If interest rates went up to normal levels then affordability would go back to normal levels as well. Interest rates could spike from inflation, fears over the federal deficit, or if a sovereign debt crisis in Europe causes risk rates to increase. The problem is that we are relying too much on low interest rates right now.

Joseph Magdziarz spoke next. Despite the problems Joseph’s industry has had with appraisal companies, his industry has experienced growth. Appraisers had some success with getting legislation passed, such as bill 4173. When October 18^th passes, AMCs will have to pay appraisers reasonable fees. Traditionally, when the AMCs have been used, they took all the money from the appraisers. Not all AMCs are bad, but some of them took advantage of people. AMCs were a risk to consumers, because consumers weren’t receiving the best appraisers.

When Joseph is asked to appear before congress, they usually have specific issues they want addressed. These issues are usually related to consumers.

Sean O’Toole was asked to give his perspective on whether or not we’ve done a good job of solving the real estate problem. The Fed has kept a balance sheet on the U.S. and it’s households. We went from $4.5 trillion of mortgage debt in the year 2,000 to $10.5 trillion at the peak. If you look at the number of new homes added, and the increases in income, we should not have gone about $6.5 trillion. That means there is $4 trillion in excess mortgage debt. Sean believes that in the best case, we have only dealt with $0.5 trillion of that excess debt. We have a long way to go before real estate is healthy again.

Sean wrote an article called Foreclosure Roulette: A Game of Extend and Pretend. Sean does not believe that the current levels of REO inventory accurately reflect the delinquency levels. We had foreclosures moving equally with delinquencies until 2008. That was when Paulson said that we shouldn’t force banks to sell these assets in distressed markets.

Currently, our REO statistics do not mean a lot. We have been bouncing around in a range that has nothing to do with delinquencies. The FDIC has loosened up on forcing lenders to get bad assets off their books. Since we changed these rules, foreclosures have stalled.

The treasury has admitted that their strategy for dealing with foreclosures was to not allow them to come out at once. They wanted to slow the process down. A new program is coming out in Fall, which will incentivize banks to write down principals on mortgages. That may have some success. Thornberg believes there will be 3 to 4 million foreclosures coming out. Sean O’Toole believes there will be more than 4 million.

Sean believes these new programs are causing problems. These programs are meant to continue the “extend and pretend” strategy. The government is telling us “hold on, we have HAMP to solve the problem”. HAMP had design flaws from the beginning, and Sean does not believe it was intended to be successful. The government then came out and said, “Hold on, we have HAFA”. HAFA also had design flaws. It was not intended to be successful. Sean will not be fooled by HAMP’s new principal balance reduction. Fannie Mae claimed it would damage people that strategically default.

The average foreclosure in California is $150,000 dollars upside down on a $250,000 house by the time it reaches the courthouse steps. The banks and the government do not want people making the right decision for themselves by walking away. This is why Fannie Mae recently encouraged banks to push through foreclosures. The banks are not actually going to push through foreclosures, but they want people to think they will, so that they won’t strategically default.

Tommy Williams does not understand how we can give principal reductions to people who were irresponsible, but give nothing to the people who were responsible. This will not work in a capitalistic society. Tommy believes that Bruce’s idea was fantastic. Right now, the average American can afford a $150,000 home. However, people are trying to sell their home for over $300,000. All the mortgages in the United States that were selling for over $300,000 equate for 5% of the market. Right now, they are still selling homes for above affordable rates, and they are building homes that are still too big.

After 1992, we built 75% of what we needed for our population growth. The biggest problem is that we’ve been building big homes in the Inland Empire, but what we really need is lower rent apartments closer to urban areas. We are going to need more housing in 2011 and 2012, but not bigger homes. If builders still to smaller town houses, then they could make a living. However, if they do that, the builders will have to deal with zoning boards, local governments who are cashed strapped who want you to fix their streets, sewers, power lines and their pensions.

In 2008, there was very little capital available for commercial properties and there was little liquidity. In 2009, some of those capital sources started coming back. We have more capital available to us today, than we have had over the last 2 years. The problem is that many properties do not qualify for financing. Some properties have leasing issues, and no one will finance those. Most of those nonperforming properties are still in the hands of the owners. The banks will not foreclose on those properties, because they do not have the ability to write those properties down. We are starting to see the banks make progress now, because the Fed is giving the banks 0% interest rates on loans. The 0% interest allows the banks to make a small profit, which allows them to then foreclose on those properties. Dealing with this extended process is going to take even longer, because no one is putting a gun to the banks’ heads.

In the 90s, the rules were different. The FDIC forced lenders to give a notice of default if someone is 100 days delinquent.

In 2012, many commercial maturities will come due. A lot of that debt is from commercial mortgage backed securities. That debt is being held by bond holders. That debt will not be refinanced. A lot of non-refinancable loans are being pushed out for 2 years. CMBS is coming back, but values are not coming back. In 2006 -2007, we made 80% loans on an inflated value. Those properties may be 60 to 70% of what it was in 2007, but it still has a loan worth 110% to value. Just because we have money available to refinance doesn’t mean we can, because we don’t have the values we need.

Thornberg believes that if the people who own this debt just “close their eyes and hold their nose” until 2014, then they will be ok. Daniel says that is just the game that these debt holders are hoping on, but it may not work.

Tags: AMC, appraiser, bond, bubble, CMBS, debt, default, deficit, delinquencies, double dip, employment, fannie mae, FDIC, Federal, foreclosure, gdp, HAFA, hamp, inflation, interest, inventory, joseph magdziarz, real estate, reo, SEAN OTOOLE, Thornberg, Tommy Williams
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194-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2010 10-02-10

Friday, October 1st, 2010

I Survived Real Estate 2010

(Full Bio)

September 17^th, 2010, The Norris Group returns with its award winning event I Survived Real Estate 2010. The video also now available on The Norris Group website.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show is broadcasting I Survived Real Estate 2010.

You must have 2 different criteria for Bruce’s no down payment program in order to prevent foreclosures. The reason why this program will work is because it is set up to serve 3 borrowers simultaneously. Yes, you are going to have a failure rate with a no-down mortgage, but you pick the percentage. When your payment is less than rent, is it going to be 20 percent? Bruce doubts it. But for the sake of argument, let’s say that foreclosure rates are at 20 percent under this program. If 2 million people sign up for the no-down program, and 400,000 people walk away, then let that loan get assumed by the next buyer without qualification. The likely target buyer will be the person who lost their house in foreclosure during the past 3 years. They can’t get new credit, but they might want to return to those “pride of ownership” homes. They will write a check, and save the system from 1 more foreclosure. The original intent of the program is to get first time buyers into a house. The secondary benefit is it will get homes back to the people that lost their homes.

Have you ever noticed that if you have great financing, then you can get more for a property? You could probably get a premium for financing on Bruce’s program.

A secondary feature of this program is that when it goes to trustee sale, the opening bid would be just the back payments. Example: Lets say you have a loan amount of $150,000 at 4.5% interest. 3 months behind, people begin the foreclosure process. 4 months later, the foreclosure sale begins. You’re 7 months behind on the property’s payment, with $1,000 dollars of payment per month. If the opening bid at the trustee sale was only $9,000, how many do you think would revert to the lender? None of them. We would fight over them. At 4.5% financing, that is an amazing deal. Not a large percentage of the sales would get to that point, but they would provide financing to investors; the group that no one wants to finance. Investors would overbid on a situation as competitive as that.

What would we do with the excess money being raised from these properties? Lets not reward people who do not do what they sign up to do. Let’s build a fund for something that does good. It doesn’t even have to be a government program. Bruce frequently sees ads in the newspaper in which wealthy people are encouraged to donate their money. We should donate this money to a nonprofit company who can make this loan. Doing this will cause no losses, and it will end in a yield. Bruce cannot see this program losing money.

Over the next few weeks we will be broadcasting the speeches given by the rest of panelists. These panelists are Peter Wayman, Christopher Thornberg, Joseph Magdziarz, Sean O’Toole, Tommy Williams, Daniel Phelan, and Sarah Letts.

Peter Wayman joined Freddie Mac in January 2010 as Sr. REO Sales Director. In this position, he oversees the design of sales strategies and how they are applied across REO portfolios. His group oversees the retail sales process as well as auction and investor sales. Peter is also responsible for the affordable strategies selling homes to organizations engaged in neighborhood stabilization.

Wayman came to Freddie Mac with 32 years of executive relocation experience working with various organizations including Cartus, Prudential and Citigroup. He was recognized for a lifetime industry achievement and inducted into the Hall of Leaders by Worldwide ERC. Peter is a graduate of Cornell University with a BS in Hotel Administration.

Christopher Thornberg is an expert in the study of regional economies, real estate dynamics, labor markets and business forecasting. In 2006 he co-founded Beacon Economics, an economic research and consulting firm that specializes in real estate markets, local economic development, and public and private policy issues.

Dr. Thornberg has established a reputation as one of the state’s leading economic forecasters. In December 2007, he was appointed to California State Controller John Chiang’s Council of Economic Advisors – the body that advises the state’s chief fiscal officer about critical economic issues facing California. Dr. Thornberg also serves on the advisory board of Paulson & Co. Inc., one of Wall Street’s most successful hedge funds. He has been involved in a number of special studies measuring the effect of important events on the economy.

Joseph C. Magdziarz, MAI, SRA is the President Elect of the Appraisal Institute. Magdziarz has been an active member of the Appraisal Institute for 38 years. He has served in a variety of capacities at all levels of the organization.

At the regional level, Magdziarz has served two terms as Regional Vice Chair and two terms as Region III Chair. He has also been a regional representative for many years. On the national level, Magdziarz served two terms on the Appraisal Institute’s National Board of Directors. He has served as Chair of the Education Committee for five years and has also chaired the National Audit Committee, Instructor and Faculty Committees, and Education and Publications Committees. In addition, he has served on a number of project teams.

Mr. Phelan is President and CEO, charged with the day-to-day leadership of Pacific Southwest Realty Services mortgage operations. Pacific Southwest Realty Services is an investment firm focused on commercial real estate, representing and advising both real estate clients and institutional investors in debt and equity placement, strategic planning, property sales and loan administration. Pacific Southwest Realty Services brings competence and integrity to helping Investors and Owners meet their capital needs.

Mr. Phelan joined Pacific Southwest Realty Services in September 1973 after graduating with a B.S. from Creighton University and has been working in the mortgage banking industry ever since. He is both a Certified Mortgage Banker (CMB) and a Charter Realty Investor (CRI) and has been very active and has held various positions in the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA), California Mortgage Bankers Association (CMBA), local building industry trade groups and the CRI Society Board.

Thomas L. Williams is a graduate of Penn State University (B.S. Animal Science) and the Certified Auctioneers Institute (CAI). Representing the third generation of Williams family auctioneers dating back to the mid-1800s, Williams is also a graduate of the historic Reppert School of Auctioneering. He has over 40 years experience in real estate auctions, land development and real estate investment. He currently serves as Immediate Past President of the National Auctioneers Association.

A founding partner of Williams & Williams, Williams served as president from 1986-2000, and became board chairman in 2001. He also co-founded and served as managing partner of Lowderman & Williams Auctioneers from 1965-85. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in all 48 of the contiguous United States and Canada, and is an advisor to auctions conducted throughout Western Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

Sean O’Toole is Founder & CEO of ForeclosureRadar.com, the only company that tracks every foreclosure in California with daily updates on all foreclosure auctions. Prior to ForeclosureRadar Sean spent 15 years building and launching software companies before entering the foreclosure business in 2002 where he has successfully bought and sold more than 150 foreclosure properties.

Sarah Letts is responsible for implementing Fannie Mae’s neighborhood stabilization strategies including pool sales of REO to government entities, land banks, and nonprofits. She joined Fannie Mae in 1999, and prior to her current position, she specialized in debt financing and equity investments for affordable housing. Before joining Fannie Mae, Sarah developed affordable housing on behalf of community development corporations in Los Angeles and Chicago. Sarah received bachelor’s degrees from Stanford University in economics and political science and a masters degree from UCLA’s graduate school of architecture and urban planning.

Thornberg was the next speaker for the event.

Thornberg begins by disagreeing with Bruce over his zero down program. He explains that FHA loans have been spiking over the last 10 years. Bruce asks, “What about the first 35 years?” Thornberg believes that the activity over the last 5 years is the most relevant, but Bruce believes it is the pricing structure that is most important.

Paul Romer from Stanford University once said, “A crisis is a terrible thing to waste.” Thornberg believes we have wasted our most recent crisis. We keep hearing how the consumer has taken over too much debt, but this is not the case. We learned in the Great Depression that banks should not be allowed to leverage up. Leveraging up turns a small problem into a huge one.

In 1960, of all private sector debt in the U.S., 10% was from the financial sector. In 2007, the financial sector represented 43% of outstanding private sector debt. Consumers didn’t really leverage that much.

We still haven’t really addressed the problem of leveraging. After Lehman Bros fell, they created TARP, and handed money to the organizations causing the problem.

Bruce has a hard time understanding how inflation emerges when it is difficult for wages to increase, and when it is difficult for businesses to ask for product increases. Because Bruce read a book given to him by Thornberg, he now understands that inflation actually drives both of those things. Inflation occurs when the quantity of money rises more rapidly than output. This is known as real GDP. The more rapid the rise in the quantity of money per unit of output, the greater the rate of inflation.

Bruce asks, “If Milton Freedman was looking at Japan’s growth of money over the last 20 years, haven’t they created a lot of money?” Thornberg replies, “no”. Economists agree that the problem with Japan’s central bank is that they have been unwilling to poor liquidity into the economy. Japan went through a period of quantitative easing. All their cash sat in banks as a form of excess reserves. Japan’s banks refused to let money leave their reserves, and so their money supply did not expand.

In Argentina, the government prints money and they spend it directly. That is automatically inflationary, because it is instantly being put into the economy.

Ben Bernanke was once known as “Helicopter Ben”, because he had an interesting proposition. If you quantitave ease with the banks, they may not lend it out. If they don’t lend it out, you can give the money to the government to spend, or you can fly around in helicopters and throw the money out in bags. Thornberg does not think that this is a bad idea. One might even argue that this is a better idea than giving the money to the banks or letting the government spend it.

Right now, we are going through a period of quantitative easing. Our government poured money into the banks, and most of it is sitting in the reserves. However, some of the money has gotten into the money supply. As a result, we are staying in the 1 to 2 percent growth range, which is not deflationary.

Thornberg believes price levels can be effectively controlled by policy, if you are willing to go far enough. Ben Bernanke has stood in front of congress, and has announced that he will go far enough. If he sees any hint of deflation, he will pour more money into the system. If he has to go up in a helicopter and throw it out, he will. Ben Bernanke has an incredible amount of control over the price level. The biggest potential problem is that if he fights it too dramatically, then he could set off inflation. At this point in time, Thornberg thinks Bernanke has done a great job with keeping things balanced. Inflation might be a little too low, but we haven’t gone into an unhealthy range of inflation or deflation.

If Bernanke had not poured trillions of dollars into the system, we may have gone into a deflationary situation. That would have lead to deeper problems inside the economy. Bruce worries that we may be mortgaging our future, but Thornberg is not concerned about this, so long as Bernanke is willing to pull the money out at the right time.

Thornberg is not concerned about what Bernanke is doing with the Fed’s cash, but he is concerned about the fiscal problems that may develop. Fiscal changes occur when congress chooses to spend $4 trillion, but only tax $2.7 trillion. In this case, they would have to borrow the extra $1.3 trillion from the rest of the world. That $1.3 trillion must be paid back. When Bernanke moves money around, he doesn’t cause any future liabilities, because he can withdraw that money.

When Bernanke chooses to withdraw that money, it will have a significant effect on the real estate business and the entire economy. Bruce owns a book named An Antique Book of Interest Rates, which was made in 1955. The lowest interest rate in the book is 4.5%. This is not as low as the rates we have right now. This is what Thornberg is most worried about right now. We are in a bond bubble.

Tags: auction, Christopher Thornberg, credit, Daniel Phelan, down payment, economic, FHA, foreclosure, homeownership, investor, joseph magdziarz, Lehman Bros, norris group, option ARM, Peter Wayman, real estate, recession, reo, Sarah letts, SEAN OTOOLE, stimulus, subject to, subprime, Tommy Williams, trustee, VA, Warrent Buffet
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193-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2010 9-24-10

Friday, September 24th, 2010

I Survived Real Estate 2010

(Full Bio)

September 17^th, 2010, The Norris Group returns with its award winning event I Survived Real Estate 2010. The video also now available on The Norris Group website.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show is broadcasting the first segment of I Survived Real Estate 2010.

This is our 3^rd I Survived Real Estate event. Over the last few years we have covered the reasons for the meltdown, ever changing legislation, government stimulus, and possible industry solutions. That is part of the conversation for I Survived Real Estate 2010, but this year we are focusing on “the state of REO from a multi-sector viewpoint.” We are proud of the ensemble we have put together for this event. Thank you for listening online. We appreciate your support.

The benefactor for this event is Susan G. Komen. Susan G. Komen is the world’s largest grass roots network of breast cancer survivors and activists, which works to save lives, empower people, ensure quality care for all, and aid science in finding the cure. As of 2pm on September 23, 2010, our sponsors raised $63,000 for Susan G. Komen. That brings our 3 year total to over $160,000.

I Survived Real Estate 2010 would not be possible without out platinum sponsors, who allowed us to dedicate 100% of the ticket sales to Komen. Those sponsors include Foreclosure Radar and Sean O’Toole, San Diego Creative Investors Association and Bill Tan, The Investors Workshop, Shawn Watkins, Angel Bronsgeest, Frye Wiles, Invest Club for Women and Iris Veneracion, Bobi Alexander, The Business Press, MVT Productions, San Jose Real Estate Investors Association and Geraldine Barry, Claudia Buy’s Houses, White House Catering, and The Nixon Library. Thank you as well to all our gold sponsors. Their information can be found on www.isurvived2010.com. We are grateful to all who have participated.

We would like to thank two heroes. First, we would like to thank Marsha Norris. Her 17 year fight with cancer has been nothing less than spectacular. Its not just about strength, but its also about attitude. “Surviving is important, but thriving is elegant.” Second, we would like to thank Bruce Norris. Thank you for giving us an incredible example of what it means to be a great partner through thick and thin, and through better or worse. You show incredible grace when under fire.

Our host for this evening is Bruce Norris. He has been in real estate for almost 30 years as a builder, money partner, and investor. He has over 2,000 transactions under his belt. He is most known for his market timing predictions and his research.

This event would never have occurred if Aaron Norris had not developed our radio show. When Aaron originally told Bruce that The Norris Group should have its own radio show, Bruce asked, “Why in the world would we do a radio show?” Aaron responded saying, “I think it would be a great service to our industry.” It has been on of the best things Bruce has ever done in his life. Every week Bruce is challenged to interview someone who is an expert in their field. He has to read and work a lot to prepare for those interviews. We now have the opportunity to put a panel of those interviewees in front of you, and discuss solutions for our industry. Two of the panelists gave Bruce home work assignments. He bought those books and did his homework, so we will be discussing some of the issues in those books. Christopher Thornberg is back. When Bruce recalled memories of last year’s event with Thornberg, he decided to buy head gear just in case Thornberg’s speech gets rough again.

Bruce wants to be able to share good ideas for good questions during this event. Bruce has been a part of panels in which he did not feel like anything was accomplished, because no one was willing to cross a line or two. With this group of panelists, we may need more than one set of head gear. One of the hardest things for Bruce to do is disagree with a conclusion that is probably correct but not understood. Tonight, Bruce is going to do that. Bruce is going to be asking questions about issues that he does not fully understand.

Are we going to inflate or deflate? That is a very important question, because investors do something very different if they expect one or the other. Thornberg and Bruce will be discussing that issue. Thornberg gave Bruce a book to read, but Bruce still doesn’t agree with him. This event is about getting answers to important questions for real estate investors. Bruce would like to develop his business plan for the next few years based on what is said during this event.

Bruce would like to thank his company for the hard work they put into preparing this event. Aaron and Diana did as much work for this event as most people do for a wedding. Bruce gets to show and get a standing ovation because of their work. It doesn’t get any better than that.

Bruce and Marsha recently moved after living in the same home for 25 years. One of the first problems that came up during the move was what to do with the wheat? For those who have not heard that story, Bruce would like to tell it again. In 1975, Bruce got married and bought his first house. During that time, he read a book called The Coming Bad Years. The book claimed that if you are concerned for your financial future, then you need to buy 200 pounds of wheat per person in your family, so that you will have food to make it through the coming rough times. Bruce only had 4 people in his family at that time, but he bought 1,000 pounds to make sure he had plenty. So 35 years later, Bruce had to decide what to do with what is left of the wheat. He sill has a bucket of about 5 pounds of wheat, and he doesn’t want to give it up, because that wheat taught him something. First of all, it taught him that wheat lasts a long time. The second lesson was that when you get input from somebody else, listen to them, but don’t just let their input determine your opinion on the issue. Your informer may not be right. Bruce managed to build a house in a very nice neighborhood during a time in which he falsely expected a depression.

We have an important year coming up. We’ve experienced the great recession of real estate, and we are now in its aftermath. Just 24 months ago, Lehman Bros failed and set off catastrophic losses on Wall Street. Just like the wheat example, we now have groups of people overreacting. Policy changes are about to be made that could have very negative outcomes. The title for a recent article in the Los Angeles Times read, “Rethinking Homeownership: Why Owning A Home May No Longer Make Economic Sense”. That is not the mentality we want to have as a country. The little house purchase that Bruce started with was a “subject to” deal before Bruce knew what a “subject to” deal was. He bought the home with 500 dollars down, and he probably couldn’t have qualified for the financing on his own. Many good things happened in his life because he bought that property.

In the article titled “Rethinking Homeownership: Why Owning A Home May No Longer Make Economic Sense”, the author claimed we should take all tax benefits away from real estate. The article said, “there is only one affect that seems consistently caused by homeownership. Owners invest more time and money in the physical upkeep of their homes. They are more likely to make repairs and guard it.” Isn’t that called pride of ownership?

Tommy Williams once said that whenever he auctions off a house, that house stops being loved by somebody. An auction finds somebody that will love it next. We all want to live in a neighborhood that is well kept. Society is better off when the majority of us have a chance to own a house.

Some people are in positions were they can make policies. Raphael Bostic is the Secretary for Policy Development and Research for HUD. This is a statement from HUD: “There is this notion that being housed well is synonymous with being a home owner. That narrative has got to change.” That is an interesting statement coming from people who provide a lot of houses. The Chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation said, “Clearly there is a strong correlation between the amount of skin in the game a borrower puts up front and how that loan performs. Its only common sense. If you put 20 percent down, you are committed to that house. If you walk away from that house, you are going to lose a lot of money.” Her solution would be to go to a 20 percent mortgage, but Bruce does not feel that is necessary.

In the mailing business, there is something called a control piece. A control piece is something that gets a known result when used. People in advertising use control pieces all the time. They send mailers designed to get a specific response repetitively. If they want to change something, they do the changes one at a time. If the change improves their control piece, then they add the changes to their mix.

We already have a control piece that has worked for 40 years. This control piece is called low down payment purchases. We have statistics showing that the damages caused by low down payment purchases have not been consistent over the past few years. Giving someone a VA loan with no down payment does not cause society big losses. Look at 1970 through 2002. During that time, we had FHA loans with only 3% down, but we did not have many foreclosures. Foreclosures were between 5 to 10% during that time. Foreclosures did not significantly increase until after 2003. The low down payment deals did not cause the problem. The subprime, low qualification, and option-ARM deals that caused the problems. We already know what works. We don’t need to reinvent our control piece, and we don’t have to practice over kill.

From 1975 to 2005, you did not have significant price decreases. If low down payment programs were causing the problem, why don’t the statistics show it? Bruce thinks that changing the low down payment policy would be a big mistake. Right now, a decline of ownership is occurring, and that is probably healthy. If the Chairman of the FDIC has her proposition in place, then homeownership will probably dip below 60%. Sellers are not netting very much when they sell properties. It would be difficult to crank up 20% from this price.

If we get rid of low down payment programs, you will have a lot more vacant properties. There is not enough financing for investors to absorb this inventory. You will have less stable housing costs for people who don’t own. When you buy a home, it can be rough at first, but once you’ve owned for a few years, you adjust to the cost, and it becomes easy. If we have more vacant homes, then we will also have lower quality neighborhoods with more unkempt houses. We will also have less equity to access other investments with.

Right now, Bruce believes that a zero down payment program would work perfectly. Warren Buffet believes that when other people are greedy, you should be fearful. If he had been in the loan business during 2006, he would have gotten out. In 2010, he would probably suggest making a lot of loans, because the payment on these loans is probably less than rent. If you are ever going to take a risk, you should take it in 2010 and 2011, because interest rates are at all time lows. Right now, people between the ages of 20 to 30 are underserved in the mortgage industry. Under Bruce’s proposed program, people would still have to qualify, but they wouldn’t need a down payment. Some people think this is crazy, but if you think about it, we’ve already done this for people with the $8,000 tax credit. We were giving homebuyers tax credits, so that they could make an $8,000 down payment. 48 percent of the 2 million people who received the tax credits will have to pay the $8,000 back.

People over the age of 35 have a homeownership rate of over 60 percent. People from the ages of 20 to 30 are underserved, and they probably did not receive the credit damage that many of their elders received from losing their houses. What is wrong with giving these younger adults a shot at homeownership? You must have 2 different criteria for Bruce’s no down payment program in order to prevent foreclosures. The reason why this program will work is because it is set up to serve 3 borrowers simultaneously. Yes, you are going to have a failure rate with a no-down mortgage, but you pick the percentage. When your payment is less than rent, is it going to be 20 percent? Bruce doubts it. But for the sake of argument, let’s say that foreclosure rates are at 20 percent under this program. If 2 million people sign up for the no-down program, and 400,000 people walk away, then let that loan get assumed by the next buyer without qualification. The likely target buyer will be the person who lost their house in foreclosure during the past 3 years. They can’t get new credit, but they might want to return to those “pride of ownership” homes. They will write a check, and save the system from 1 more foreclosure.

Tags: bruce norris, credit, deflate, down payment, economic, FDIC, Federal, FHA, foreclosure, HUD, I Survived, inflate, insurance, inventory, legislation, Lehman Bros, loan, meltdown, norris group, option ARM, Raphael Bostic, real estate, reo, stimulus, Susan G. Komen, tax, The Coming Bad Years, Thornberg, Tommy Williams, VA, wall street, warren buffet
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185-TNG Radio – Tommy Williams 7-31-10

Friday, July 30th, 2010

2008 President of The National Auctioneers Association

Co-Founder Williams and Williams Auctions

(Full Bio)

September 17^th, 2010, The Norris Group returns with its award winning event I Survived Real Estate 2010. The Norris Group has assembled an incredible line up of industry experts to discuss the state of REO from the inside. Topics will include regulatory intervention and aftermath, bulk buying, myths and facts, and opportunities emerging for real estate professionals. 100 percent of the proceeds support the Orange County affiliate of Susan G. Komen for the Cure. This event would not be possible without generous help from the following platinum partners: Foreclosure Radar and Sean O’Toole, the San Diego Creative Real Estate InvestorsAssociation and Bill Tan, Investors Workshops and Shawn Watkins and Angel Bronsgeest, Invest Club for Women and Iris Veneracion and Bobby Alexander, San Jose Real Estate Investors Association and Geraldine Barry, Claudia Buys Houses, Frye Wiles, MVT Productions, and White House Catering.

This week Bruce is joined by Tommy Williams. Tommy is the past president of the National Auctioneers Association and cofounder of Williams and Williams Auctions. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in 48 states and Canada. He is an advisor to auctions conducted in Western Europe, South Africa and New Zealand.

The auction business extends to almost any category. The world’s largest takes place every day in New York, and we call it the New York Stock Exchange. Buyers and sellers meet there and someone is conducting the price.

There are different acceptance levels in different countries toward auctions and different industries. If Tommy was planning to sell livestock, he would sell it through auction. Auctions are the accepted method for selling livestock of any kind. Used cars and used heavy equipment are also commonly sold through auction. Rare collectible items are sold through auctions too. The problem is that people developed a negative mentality of real estate auctions after the Great Depression when foreclosure Sheriff sales were occurring. This has caused people to perceive auctioned real estate as depressed, but in reality, auctioning is one of the best way to determine market value for real estate too.

Bruce read an article about an auction for Pete Rose’s baseball bat. It sold for $156,000 and the auctioneers thought that was too little. You sometimes cannot know what something will sell for, and that is the purpose of an auction; it reveals what a buyer is willing to pay. Tommy believes we get ourselves into trouble when we try to twist the market place, and we need the natural market to determine true value. We tried twisting real estate and we got disastrous results. Bruce feels like we are in the phoniest market he has ever experienced in his life. The government is trying to artificially influence the market.

Six years ago, Tommy started selling homes in the bad areas of Detroit. Those homes were selling for $10,000 to $16,000. The sellers were angry and said that Tommy should not have sold their properties. The city officials even threatened to stop auctions. If you go back to those homes today, you will notice that they have all been bulldozed, because there was no demand to meet the supply. It is difficult for sellers to accept that their homes are no longer as valuable as they once were. If those homes were bulldozed, then that tells Bruce that the value of those homes was not even $10,000 fifteen years later, it was zero.

Tommy has many stories about investors who bought properties at a discount, and then sold through an auction for more than double what they bought those properties for just 90 days before.

Not all auctions are created equal. There is a company in California that buys homes in ballroom auctions, and then re-auctions those homes for a profit. Tommy auctions properties right in front of the house. History has proven to him that this method brings in the greatest net value. All real estate is local. The people within walking distance of your home are the biggest supporters you can have for that neighborhood. When people discover that you can walk down to a property and buy it for what you are willing to give, they become happy bidders. When you move a property to a ballroom auction, the auction may take place hundreds of miles from where the property is. This discourages local buyers, which are the best buyers, from coming.

The real estate market place changes very fast. An auction company as big as Williams and Williams is able to quickly look at trends in different states. Every month, Tommy’s company sells over 1,000 homes throughout the United States. These auctions allow him to determine when a disaster or boom is coming.

If a builder auctions a track of houses, the public will think the builder is in trouble. However, Tommy feels this is irrelevant. Auctioning might still be the best business decision they will ever make. They should go ahead with the auction, and allow their buyers to pay what they are willing to. Bruce can guarantee that in 2005-2006 builders never got full price for a house. The builders could not build fast enough, so they gave their 20 buyers a lottery number and then allowed the winner to buy for full price. If the builders had put those 20 buyers up against each other at an auction, who knows how much more those homes would have sold for. Auctions are incredibly value in an increasing market, because they allow you to see how much people think your house is worth at that moment. If you interfere, you put a sealing on your home value, which could be very low.

Tommy believes buyers often feel that auction results are manipulated. Tommy would blame the auction industry for that buyer mentality, because in the past, auctions have not been conducted in the right manner. If you are going to hire an auction company, check how long they have been in that location, and check their references. Talk to other people who used the company to sell in the past.

Online auctions are becoming more popular, and it can reduce the level of trust that a buyer will have in the auction company, especially if that auction company has a bad history.

Tommy auctions off a lot of privately owned properties. He did not start selling bank owned properties until about six years ago. His company is built around selling private property.

Too many people look at life in the short term. The auction profession has an unlimited amount of potential, and he would encourage any of his children to get into it. However, you have to enter this business with a long term plan. Before this year ends, Williams and Williams will begin to broadcast their auctions live, so anyone in the world can bid. This technology may cause some bidders to feel like they are being tricked, because they will not be able to see all the bidders making offers. Tommy is trying to obtain technology that will allow the bidders at the auction site to see the activity of the online bidders.

Bruce feels it is unfortunate that auction companies too often view each other as nothing more than competitors. Tommy believes there are many ethical auction companies out there, which he is willing to refer people to. We need to have a spirit of good will towards other people. When you are trying to tear down your competitor, you tear down yourself.

Lenders have come to the conclusion that they do not want to take a property back as an REO. These people would make a great team member with an auction company. Lenders are becoming more willing to accept the value given to them at an auction.

Tommy is now getting involved in the Assisted Sales Auction Program. This process involves a person who still owns and occupies a property, but is trying to accomplish a short sale. Bruce thinks that is a trend that makes a lot of sense. Bruce was on a panel with someone who was touting that they could get a sell done within six months through the HAFA program. This made Bruce laugh on the inside, because he wanted to say that he knew someone who could get the job done quicker.

Thank you Tommy for participating in The Norris Group’s radio show. Tommy will be on the panel for I Survived 2010.

Thank you for being a Gold Sponsor for I Survived Real Estate 2010: Delmae Properties, Elite Auctions, Entrust California, Inland Empire Investors Forum, Keystone CPA, Las Brisas Escrow, Leivas Financial Services, Mike Cantu, North San Diego Real Estate Investors Association, Northern California Real Estate Investors Association, Personal Real Estate Investor Magazine, Realty 411 Magazine, San Jose Real Estate Investor Association, Starz Photography, Tony Alvarez, and Westin South Coast Plaza.

Tags: auction, auctions, bruce norris, foreclosure auciton, foreclosures, hard money, investor, national auctioneers association, podcast, Radio, real estate, real estate auctions, reo, reo auction, the norris group, Tommy Williams, williams and williams
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148-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 11-14-09

Friday, November 13th, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 9 of I Survived Real Estate 2009. This is the final installation of the audio for this event.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Bruce Norris segment of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

Bruce begins by discussing the declining housing inventory. A declining inventory typically means that the market is doing well, because you have multiple offers being placed on homes. We currently have the highest affordability rates in the history of California. The volume of sales has gone up to normal, but we have high unemployment.

Delinquencies have exploded. From July 08 to July 09, we have gone from 5.3 percent to 9.7 percent delinquencies. The inventory of REOs has gone down, because banks have not taken back as many as they should. Some people have not made payments in 14 months. Trustee sales have also declined during this same time period. We had 28,795 trustee sales in July 08 and then we progressed to the 9.7 percent delinquency rate. We are currently 306,000 trustee sales short of where we should be. That averages 25,000 homes going out per month in the future. We have not peaked at delinquencies, and according to reports, we will soon be at 13 percent delinquencies. At 13 percent, we will be releasing 70,000 homes per month. Bruce does not believe that we can have a positive market if these statistics are true.

FHA is going to have a large number of defaults next year. They once had a 203K loan for investors in which investors could buy a property and include the repair bill in the loan. A lot of people would use this kind of loan and they would buy up to 7 homes and use them as rentals. Bruce thinks this would help clear up a lot of inventory.

Bruce thinks that Fannie and Freddie programs should be expanded so that qualified buyers can get unlimited loans. We are currently stuck at 10, and many investors are capped out because they exchanged their homes out of California and moved their investments to another state. Those investors cannot sell their property and come back to California.

We are currently giving away homes for 8,000 dollars. That money is coming from tax payers. Bruce thinks that we should just let people take these homes for no down payment. We will have people walk away, but the next buyer will be able to easily take it. Under this kind of proposed program, it would not matter if the buyer qualified or not because this loan can be continually passed down. These houses could go to investors with a 5 percent interest rate. This program would not have foreclosure, because the problems would be solved by the next buyer. The people who have recently foreclosed on their homes will not be able to qualify for homes, which may keep them out of the market for the next few years. We could just reintroduce these people as buyers if they did not have to qualify. This is not a program that we have never seen before. We are trying to solve this problem by selling the next house to the owner occupant who was shoved into home buying by the nonsense financing of 05 and 06.

We are already doing zero down deals. When Bruce sells a property, he usually pays part of the closing cost. The person getting 3.5 percent down on a 100 grand purchase is getting an 8,000 dollar check; that is better than nothing down. If you just had nothing down and these people qualified, we would get rid of a lot of homes.

Bruce and many other investors believe that we need to get rid of the FHA 90 day flip rule. When an investor fixes a property, which may only take 3 to 4 weeks, and they sell it within 90 days, the investor is believed to be guilty of fraud. The lender has to pay the cost for this, because the investor will subtract the amount that he or she must pay the lender for the property. We need to start looking at investors as people who can help this problem. At some point, we must either choose to not foreclose, or we must pay catch-up in a painful market.

Bruce asks Christopher Thornberg if he expects the dollar to lose value, and how the value of the dollar impacts interest rates. As the trade deficit gets wider, the dollar goes up. Now the trade deficit is going to close, so the dollar will get weaker. There is very little doubt that the dollar will weaken. Interest rates are undoubtedly going to go up. The federal reserve has increased the money substantially and that money is going to cause inflation. The Federal Reserve is either going to let inflation happen, which will raise interest rates, or they will fight inflation by selling the long range securities they bought, which will also raise interest rates. One way or another, interest rates are going to go up. In the shorter run, it will be faster to allow inflation to occur, because that would bail out the asset markets. In 1982, the mortgage rate was 18 percent, because of the fear of inflation.

Bruce thinks that we can absorb a higher interest rate and still have a good real estate market, because the combination with the cheap price could absorb a double digit interest rate, just like in the 70s. Thornberg says that a 1 percent increase in the mortgage rate means a 10 percent decline in prices. Bruce disagrees with this, because between 1974 and 1980 we had a tripling in real estate prices and interest rates doubled. Thornberg tells Bruce that he is talking about the real mortgage rate, which is the mortgage rate minus the rate of inflation.

Bruce asks Thornberg what the statement Unemployment is a lagging indicator means. Thornberg says that means that the labor markets are the last to go into the toilet and the last to dry off. Bruce asks if that means when labor improves, every other category of real estate should have already started to improve. Thornberg says that residential real estate leads commercial. Now, we keep waiting to hear about the collapse in the commercial market, but we are not seeing this at all. Thornberg says that this sort of lead and lag mentality can be exaggerated.

This is why Bruce brought this up, because in the last cycle, employment improved in California from 1994-96 but we did not have a price increase until 1997. If we do not have price increases, builders will not build anything. Bruce asks if you can have an improved labor market if builders do not have any work to do. Thornberg says that these two factors do kind of work together. The prices started to go up after the labor increases from 1994-96. Thornberg reminds Bruce that in the early 90s we lost zero space, defense, and migration. In that market, the real estate was hampered by the excess supply. Thornberg takes issue with the idea that we should subsidize the building of new homes, because he believes that we have too many homes. Thornberg believes it would be a bad idea to subsidize the construction of homes when there is already too much inventory. Bruce says that some builders have been fixing existing inventory, and Thornberg believes that is all the builders can really do.

Robert Toll made 700 million dollars between 2000 and 2007 because he was selling too many houses at too high of a price, and now he wants tax payers to bail him out.

Bruce Norris asks Rick Sharga if people foreclosed for different reasons in 2008 versus 2009. Rick says that the reasons are not as different as the press would lead you to believe. The media has jumped ahead to the next wave of foreclosures. We are looking at a 3 wave foreclosure tsunami. The first wave began in the first quarter of 2006, because of the subprime meltdown and ARMs. The MBA numbers suggest that 33 percent of the new foreclosures are unemployment. That means that 2/3 of the foreclosure activity is not employment related.

What we are really seeing is increasing levels of foreclosure activity from the first wave, which is being made worse from the second wave. The second wave is about to pick up steam. If unemployment peaks around the first quarter of next year, we will see the foreclosures related to that peak around the 3rd or 4th quarter next year. That will be just in time for them to be augmented by the next wave. This next wave will be caused by the option ARMs. Many loans are going to reset, and people will owe more on their reset loans than their original loans.

Strategic defaults are going to be a problem. In the past American culture, people honored their contracts and chose to make their payments. Now people are realizing that the house they bought is worth half of what they owe, and they are wondering if it is in their familys best interest to keep paying. If someone is only 10 percent upside-down on a loan then they will probably stick with the loan, but if they are upside-down by 50 percent then they will probably default.

Thornberg asks people if their credit or their equity will hear quicker. Thornberg says that most of these people will have their credit heal faster. Sharga responded to Thornberg with a story about a Coldwell Bankerk agent that was fired. This agent counseled her customers to default on their current loan after qualifying and buying a second house. Bruce feels that there is still a lot of character being shown in California; a state with a 9.7 default rate that has had a 50 percent value drop.

An economist from the building industry claimed that California needed to build 230,000 homes, but John was only able to build 70 homes this year. Economists who say things like this ruin the credibility of the people in their industry. Bruce feels that people owe more to their industry than they give.

Bruce thinks that now is a good time to buy property even though he thinks property values will go down. There is a combination of good interest rates and prices that make paying for properties an easy thing to do. Bruce thinks that the price declines that are coming will mostly affect the “as is” inventory, because loans will not be available to homes without kitchens.

Right now, investors are not being rewarded for the $35,000 they spend on repairs. The appraisal business is using a broken model which does not allow for proper adjustments on repaired properties. Every sale we have is an anomaly. The neighborhoods that Bruce is buying and selling in contain homes that are worth $60,000, but buyers want Bruce’s property at $130,000 because it has a kitchen and financing. If investors are going to make these improvements in the real estate market then they need to be rewarded for their efforts. The appraisal model being used right now is telling buyers that their decision to buy a repaired property is unwise. This hurts the market because fixed homes make neighborhoods more valuable. If these homes are left unfixed then more foreclosures will occur.

Joseph agrees with Bruce’s opinion that the appraisal process is broken. There is no magic number in appraising that makes it impossible to make a line item adjustment impossible. If an appraiser is going to make an adjustment worth more than 10 percent of the sales price, then they need to give an explanation for that. When there are multiple offers on a property, then an appraiser should consider those offers in their property evaluation. Unfortunately, the underwriters are not allowing these adjustments to take place.

For the final segment of the show, Bruce asks each speaker what they feel the biggest problem in real estate is.

Joseph believes that real estate’s biggest problem is appraisal management companies that hire incompetent people who are not qualified and do not have enough experience. Those people make bad decisions and they ruin deals.

Patt says that it is hard to tell what the biggest problem is. The biggest problem for Patt and many other realtors is getting inventory out of the market place. There are too many short sales that no one knows how to sell. When someone performs a search on the MLS and finds that 75 percent of the properties are being labeled as “subject to short sale”, you have a problem. 90 percent of the time, those sales will not close. The foreclosed homes are easy to get rid of, because a bank owns them, and they have answers for someone who wants the property.

Tommy thinks that the biggest problem is the tremendous volume of deteriorating, empty homes. These homes need to be put into the hands of investors or home owners as quickly as possible, and Tommy thinks that auctions do that very well.

John Young agrees that we need to get through this inventory as quickly as possible. Previously in the show, Bruce proposed multiple solutions to the inventory problem such as zero down deals. He believes that this problem will not be solved by just one helping factor.

David Kittle believes that the biggest problem in real estate is the people who are making laws who do not understand the business, and have never run a business.

Rick Sharga believes that the entire real estate “ecosystem” is imbalanced. Valuations are imbalanced because we have less professional and competent appraisers who are under valuing properties. There is a freeze in the capital market, because lenders are afraid to risk lending money on homes that may not have proper valuations. Hundreds of thousands of homeowners are under water on their loans, and there is too much inventory for the market to buy. He does not believe that there is one central problem that has caused this real estate mess.

Real estate is a boom-bust phenomenon. When times are good, it is very good, but when times are bad, it is very bad. 2001 to 2006 was a phenomenal time for people in the industry, but because of that boom, they are suffering from a terrible crash. From a long run perspective, we are dealing with a mess of rules, regulations, subsidies and taxes. Local governments are constantly pushing all sorts of taxes on builders. Those taxes drive up prices on homes, and as a result, a constituency cannot afford those homes. Then they try to subsidize the price of a home by having an FHA mortgage. You do not want a loan on a house to be a normal loan, so you make it a no recourse loan, but then third party appraisers are more important than what someone is trying to buy a home for. We keep creating problems by trying to fix problems. Christopher believes that we need a massive deregulation of the market. We need to clear these regulations so the market can work efficiently.

Bruce hopes that the investor will have the chance to influence congress. Right now, investors are a very important solution to this problem, but they are currently having trouble. If investors are able to get financing, they will be able to fix homes and prevent them from returning as “for sale” inventory. If investors cannot get financing, then they must either leave these homes alone or they must pay for these homes with cash. Unfortunately, investors have a limited amount of cash to spend.

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn more about our sponsors and speakers.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

Tags: Beacon economics, bruce norris, california building industry association, Christopher Thornberg, david kittle, i survived real estate, joseph magdziarz, legislation, MBA, mortgage bankers association, mortgage brokers association, national association of realtors, Pat Vredevoogd Combs, real estate, real estate information, RealtyTrac, Rick Sharga, robert rivinius, seminar, stimulation, the national auctioneers association, the norris group, Tommy Williams
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147-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 11-7-09

Friday, November 6th, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 8 of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Bruce Norris segment of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

Robert Toll made 700 million dollars between 2000 and 2007 because he was selling too many houses at too high of a price, and now he wants tax payers to bail him out.

There is a proposal being supported by 16 senators to increase the tax credit to $15,000 dollars for next year. The current $8,000 dollar tax credit started at $15,000 dollars, but it was then taken down to $7,500 dollars, and then it was increased to $8,000 dollars. MBA is supporting an open $15,000 dollar tax credit. That includes owner occupied and second homes. Every time someone buys a house, they spend an average of $7,500 dollars. That money goes into places like Home Depot, Lowes, Porter Paint, and furniture companies. MBA’s economist estimates that if the $15,000 dollar tax credit was approved today, then an additional 400,000 purchases would take place over the next year. $7,500 multiplied by 400,000 is a lot of money. David Kittle would argue that when these people begin to buy these homes that they would most likely be buying a foreclosure. The government is going to have to spend money to bail out that market anyway, so David thinks this is a better option.

Christopher Thornberg believes that this proposal is ridiculous, because you cannot expect the government to continuously subsidize everything. However, Christopher does think that there is a reason for governments to provide these opportunities, because the market can get into a death spiral. Temporary credit causes a short term burst in sales to stabilize the market, but then you must stop subsidizing and let the markets fix themselves.

One year ago, Fannie and Freddie were put into conservatorship. They were not too big too fail. If the government had allowed everything to fail, things would have been ten times worse than they are right now, but these problems would be over by now. We need to allow businesses to fail. Independent lenders are going out of business, because they cannot get warehouse line capacity. This is because the Obama administration has put on a capital requirement which forces these lenders to put a dollar into reserve for every dollar they lend. One year ago, we had 120 facilities that gave warehouse lines to lenders, but we now have only 12. As individual mortgage bankers go out of business, all the money is being funneled to Wells Fargo, Chase, BB&T, Bank of America, and Citi.

Bruce asks Joseph Magdziarz who has the final say as to what a property is worth. Is it the appraiser, the review appraiser, the underwriter, or is there a boss of the underwriter. The problem with government subsidies is that we cannot find the real market. When subsidies are affecting the market, we cannot find the true demand and supply balance. An appraiser usually has the opportunity to observe the property. An AVM is just an awful valuation model that may tell you which appraisal should be reviewed based on statistics. Joseph thinks that it is wrong for lenders to use AVMs to turn down an appraiser’s opinion. You should stay with you appraiser’s opinion, or you should get a review appraisal done. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen. We must remember that government intervention only postpones the eventual. We need to have a free market.

Joseph talked to five major builders in his market area. Most of them build 700 to 800 homes per year. One had taken 3 permits out this year, and he told Joseph that he never wants to own lots and subdivisions. He hired The Appraisal Institute to come up with a pricing mechanism, but he wanted a real value, because he did not believe that he could build his properties for what he could sell them. In most companies, the underwriter has the final say in the value of the property. Bruce asks if there is a boss of the underwriter who can trump the underwriter’s decision. The speaker claims that his company does not do this, but this may be true in other companies. One of the problems that Joseph has come across is that many of the underwriters are not certified, yet they are responsible for second guessing someone who is trained in appraisal.

Bruce asks what happened to the buyer’s ability to look at the market and say, “I’ve seen all the vacant houses that are listed for $75,000 and I want to buy this property at $135,000.” The system is trumping the buyer’s decision as if they have no idea what they are doing. Bruce provides an example of how this problem is affecting his company. Bruce bought a property in Moreno Valley for $50 grand and he fixed with $35 grand. When he attempted to sell the property, he got six offers within 48 hours for $120 grand to $122 grand. From Bruce’s perspective, that states market value. There were six buyers looking at all the market inventory and they thought Bruce’s property was a better deal than the other property’s priced at $120 grand, and they also thought his property was superior to the properties being sold at $75 grand. The appraisal for Bruce’s property came in at $102,000, and the review appraisal came in at $85,000. Bruce would not have been rewarded for his efforts if he sold the property at $85 grand, so he no longer makes the effort to buy and sell in Moreno Valley. The consequence for this is that there could have been a $120 grand comp for the entire neighborhood to enjoy, but now they have a $50 grand comp to look at, because they did not let the buyer determine what market value is. Bruce chose to keep this property and rent it for $1,150 dollars. The value of owning a house is being topped at half of rental value. Bruce thinks that is ridiculous.

Tommy tells Bruce that this problem would not have occurred if the property had been sold through an auction. Auctions are not contingent on financing. Most of the homes that Tommy sells are financing, but the buyer already knows what they are qualified for. In Tommy’s entire life, he has never had an appraiser dispute a house price that was sold in an auction.

Christopher Thornberg says the problem is that the banks worry about the appraisals, and they are not under the assumption that buyers are concerned about the appraisals. If we allowed a system where we had recourse mortgages again, then we would have deals in which buyers could buy houses above the appraisal value. However, the buyer would have to sign a deal which would allow banks to take the buyers assets if the buyer goes bankrupt. Bruce interrupts Thornberg, exclaiming that what Thornberg is proposing is that the appraisal system is correct. Bruce feels that we must respect the buyer’s decision more than that. Thornberg explains that the bank does not know that Bruce had six offers. They are under the assumption that there is only one accepted offer, and the appraisal came in at less than that offer. The bank is worried that if the buyer cannot pay his mortgage, which is half of rent, then they must turn around and they can only sell that property for $85 grand. If the buyer could sign a secondary note, making the deal a full recourse loan, then it shouldn’t make a difference.

Bruce asks John what the percentage of his sale price to his cost is in this market. The sticks and bricks costs about $50 dollars per square foot, but that does not include the land and the additional fees. In Fontana, John has built homes in the last 5 years that are now repos. John’s company tried to sell to people who were qualified and had good FICA scores. At that time, Wells Fargo was very nervous about the Alt A and subprime loan. John’s competitors would sell to anybody including investors and people who were not occupying the properties.

The federal first time homebuyer tax credit allows you to get the credit regardless of whether or not you paid any taxes. The state program only gives you as much credit as you have already paid in taxes. John must decrease his prices to encourage buyers to buy his homes. His homes are more expensive than foreclosures, so he must show the value difference between his homes and foreclosures.

John says that builders are not building 225,000 homes as Chris mentioned previously. Builders are currently only building about 40,000. John’s company will only build about 70 homes this year.

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn more about our sponsors and speakers.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

Tags: Beacon economics, bruce norris, california building industry association, Christopher Thornberg, david kittle, i survived real estate, joseph magdziarz, legilsation, MBA, mortgage bankers association, mortgage brokers association, national association of realtors, Pat Vredevoogd Combs, real estate, real estate information, RealtyTrac, Rick Sharga, robert rivinius, seminar, stimulation, the national auctioneers association, the norris group, Tommy Williams
Posted in Radio | No Comments »

146-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 10-31-09

Friday, October 30th, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 7 of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Bruce Norris segment of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

Robert Toll made 700 million dollars between 2000 and 2007 because he was selling too many houses at too high of a price, and now he wants tax payers to bail him out.

California has a 9.7 percent default rate, and its home values have dropped by 50 percent. Bruce thinks that shows a lot of character, and that there are still plenty of people honoring their contracts.

SOMEONE believes that if they had purchased a home that turned out to be a terrible deal, he would be furious with his banker and the appraiser. The buyer on our system has always been on an island by himself. The Realtor does not have a fiduciary responsibility to the buyer unless they are contractually working with the buyer, the lender has underwriting standards but is not responsible for the buyer to make the payments, and the guys at Bear Stearns apparently did not have any fiduciary responsibility either. SOMEONE’s realtor told him that if you don’t have someone to write a mortgage for you, then use this person. That has worked very well with our system, because everyone played by the rules, but within the last five years, all the rules seem to have flown out the window.

Bruce asks David why 60 to 70 percent of loan modifications fail, and if principal reductions should be part of loan modifications. The lender does have a fiduciary responsibility, because they have buy-back agreements. There are many loans coming back from Fannie and Freddie, and they are asking the lenders to take them. The lenders do have responsibility, but the broker does not. There is recourse for the buyer in situations in which the buyer has committed fraud, and 80 percent of the loans going into foreclosure, in California, have fraud committed on them. That means that loan officers, Realtors, appraisers knew what they were doing. Even many borrowers are knowledgeable of the fraud that is occurring. David gives an example of a gardener who was told that if he stated an income of 15,000 dollars a month and falsely claimed to own a nursery, rather than his true income of 1,500, that when the value of his property went up the person helping him get the loan would split the money made on the deal.

Bruce recently talked to the president of a company in California who just bought a pool of mortgages for 335 million, and their face value was 25 cents or less on the dollar. He was in the subprime business, and he is probably responsible for creating the same paper that he is now buying and making a fortune on. David thinks that is shameful. David thinks that Barney Frank is one of the most intelligent people in Congress, but his policies are wrong. A year ago, 8 out of 10 of those subprime loans were still being paid on time, but now that number is 7 out of 10. It was not the products that were bad, but the subprime product was given to the wrong people. 50 percent of the 30 percent who have failing subprime loans will not lose their homes. That means that 85 percent of the people who got a subprime loan will not lose their house, but the media pushes it the other way.

David thinks that some loan modifications should include principal reductions, but not all. People in David’s industry once manually underwrote loans, and people had to qualify. That is what we are doing today, and we are making the best loans that we’ve made in 15 years.

People are asking lenders and servicers to use tools in a way that they were never designed to be used. Loan modification, forbearance, and workout programs were meant to be used on a case by case basis, but now we are trying to use these programs as mass market products. Now people are looking Obama to wave a magic wand over all the problems that are occurring. Short sales were supposed to be a rare occurrence for when someone has fallen on bad financial times at the same time as their house lost value. Now we are wondering why we cannot ask a single loan officer to do 100 short sales per day, and that is how many files they are getting. The tools we were using to fix this problem were not meant for the volume of activity we are seeing. Tommy believes that auctioneers can help fix that problem, but they have to sell at the proper value. Most people who have invested in the stock market have an equity that is off by 30 percent. Yet stock investors don’t think that the government should come up with some sort of modification or a cramdown for those sorts of mistakes. Tommy believes that people should know that real estate does not always go up. We have sold the concept that when you buy a home it will go up in price, and people have speculated on that concept, which is what caused all the problems we are currently seeing.

Bruce asks Pat if the reason for buying homes has changed. Pat says that it depends on where you live. All real estate is local. In the crazy market areas, some people began to look at real estate as an investment. In places like Michigan, home prices were not sky rocketing, so people simply viewed homes as a place to live in. Pat agrees with Tommy’s perspective on how this real estate problem came about. Realtors have contributed to this problem by telling people that they can easily flip properties.

Christopher Thornberg believes that NAR hires economists to go out and produce ridiculous research, so that it can be used to support prices. The NAR never stood up in 2005 or 2006 and told everyone that there was a housing bubble. Pat believes that the NAR had very valid research. Thornberg debated economists from CAR and NAR who were telling him that there was no bubble. He frustratingly tells Pat that people should not view the NAR as an innocent victim on the sideline that was hit blind sighted by crazy people in California. Pat disagrees with Thornberg’s statement. She believes that the NAR’s economists did research in a credible way.

Tommy Williams moved to Oklahoma in 1985 immediately after he had experienced radical real estate devaluations in Western Illinois. He sold a farm at auction that brought 3,500 dollars an acre, but before he moved to Oklahoma, he resold the same farm for 1,200 dollars per acre. He met a lady who was trying to sell her house and he told her that her house would not sell for what she owed on it. She told Tommy that she had never heard of such a thing as a house that sold for a lower value than what it was bought for, and that she was going to tell congress that there should be a law forbidding homes to be sold for a decreased value. Christopher Thornberg jokingly asks if the woman trying to sell her house was Nancy Pelosi.

The 8,000 dollar tax credit was good for the industry. Bruce asks Pat if we would get the same result on a program involving a qualified buyer with no down payment. Pat is not sure if that kind of program would work. The NAR has seen a lot of qualified buyers sitting on the fence, because the media is saying that prices are going down. The buyers were unsure that they will be making a good investment. Now that the 8,000 dollar tax credit has come in, many of those fence sitters have chosen to enter the market. These new buyers are looking at low interest rates, choice in the market place, and affordability, but now there is less choice because the market is improving. Bruce asks Pat if we need to induce these buyers with a check. Pat would have said no six months ago. It bothers her to think that we need to pay off people to enter the market.

There is a proposal being supported by 16 senators to increase the tax credit to 15,000 dollars for next year. The current 8,000 dollar tax credit started at 15,000 dollars, but it was then taken down to 7,500 dollars, and then it was increased to 8,000 dollars. MBA is supporting an open 15,000 dollar tax credit. That includes owner occupied and second homes. Every time someone buys a house, they spend an average of 7,500 dollars. That money goes into places like Home Depot, Lowes, Porter Paint, and furniture companies. MBA’s economist estimates that if the 15,000 dollar tax credit was approved today, then an additional 400,000 purchases would take place over the next year. 7,500 multiplied by 400,000 is a lot of money. David Kittle would argue that when these people begin to buy these homes that they would most likely be buying a foreclosure. The government is going to have to spend money to bail out that market anyway, so David thinks this is a better option. Christopher Thornberg believes that this proposal is ridiculous, because you cannot expect the government to continuously subsidize everything. Chris thinks that this kind of spinning can cause the market to get into a “death spiral.”

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn more about our sponsors and speakers.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

Tags: Beacon economics, bruce norris, california building industry association, Christopher Thornberg, david kittle, divid kittle, i survived real estate, joseph magdziarz, legilsation, MBA, mortgage bankers association, mortgage brokers association, national association of realtors, Pat Vredevoogd Combs, real estate, real estate information, RealtyTrac, Rick Sharga, robert rivinius, seminar, stimulation, the national auctioneers association, the norris group, Tommy Williams
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145-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 10-24-09

Friday, October 23rd, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 6 of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Bruce Norris segment of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

Robert Toll made 700 million dollars between 2000 and 2007 because he was selling too many houses at too high of a price, and now he wants tax payers to bail him out.

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn more about our sponsors and speakers.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

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Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

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