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204-TNG Radio – Tom Anderson 12-11-10

Friday, December 10th, 2010

Tom Anderson

Chairman and Founder of PENSCO Trust Company


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This week Bruce is joined again by Tom Anderson. Tom is the chairman and founder of PENSCO Trust Company. He is considered by many to be the national expert on the topic of self directed IRAs. He focuses on how investors can increase their wealth-building potential with real estate and private equity investments. He has written articles for nearly all the nation’s and financial magazines. He was recently invited to Washington as part of the “Future of Finance Initiative” for the Obama Administration.

You can loan money to your IRA if you attempting to protect the existence of the IRA. You cannot loan money to your IRA to buy new lots. The loan must also be interest free. If it did have an interest rate, the loan would be considered self dealing, because you would be taking profit out of your IRA. Lastly, if the loan extends more than 60 days, you must provide the custodian with a note explaining that the IRA owes you money.

Tom recently spoke to a member of the Department of Labor who created this exemption, and the member confirmed that you could loan money to your IRA to bail it out of mortgage delinquency.

There are some IRA investments which may or may not be considered illegal depending on which government official is reviewing the investment. For example, Tom once heard of a man who used his IRA to buy a classic car. Because the car is a classic, there is good reason to believe the car will appreciate. However, a government official might consider this self dealing, because they may or may not perceive the classic car to be for personal use. If the government perceives the car to be for personal use, then the car purchase would be labeled self dealing. Depending on which day the car purchase was reviewed, and depending on who reviewed the purchase, this may or may not be a legal IRA purchase. You can perform a large variety of transactions within your IRA, but you must be careful not to purchase anything that the government might perceive as self dealing. If the government believes you are self dealing with your IRA, then your IRA will lose its tax-deferred status.

Bruce’s business is set up to buy and sell real estate. Bruce asks Tom if there is a limit on how much money, or how many houses, he could use for his IRA. Tom believes that this is up for interpretation. In Bruce’s case, he owns a real estate business, so if he performs many transactions through his IRA, the government may possibly perceive Bruce to be running a business through his IRA. All businesses must pay taxes, and if the government determined that Bruce was running his business through his IRA, then he might lose the tax-deferred status of his IRA. Tom believes that if Bruce was both working in his IRA for retirement investments, and out of it for business use, then it would be hard for the government to label Bruce’s IRA as a business. However, if Bruce was retired, and he only purchased and sold properties through his IRA, then the government may perceive Bruce to be running a business through his IRA. You should consult with your CPA to determine whether or not you will be subject to taxes.

A disqualified person is a term in the Internal Revenue Code 4975 which defines certain entities as people you cannot perform transactions with. The government does not want you to touch your IRA assets, because they want your assets to be there when you retire. So you cannot buy a condo in a vacation spot with your IRA, and then use that condo on the weekends. Disqualified persons include yourself, your spouse, your children, and the spouses of your children. Most people in your family are considered disqualified persons, except for siblings, nephews and uncles. If you deal with a sibling or nephew, you should not offer them less than market rates. Giving a member of your family the benefit of low payments through an IRA asset could be considered self dealing.

Bruce heard an unusual example of someone who was taxed for self dealing. An investor owned a commercial building, and his IRA owned the let next to it. The investor would park in the lot next door, and that was considered illegal personal use. You are not allowed to gain a personal benefit from your IRA while the IRA is growing. If a mistake like this occurs, you have 14 days to correct it. However, if the custodian was the cause of the mistake, then you can argue in court that the custodian should be held responsible.

Tom’s company will not accept any member that is not a part of a regulated institution. If he did not check to determine whether or not his members were being regulated, many bad people would have the opportunity to deal through them. A non-regulated company may enter into an agreement with a bank who is a custodian. All banks, credit unions and trust companies are automatically qualified to hold IRAs. If you are not one of those institutions, then you must be authorized by the IRS. There are 257 mutual fund companies, insurance companies, and broker dealers that are licensed by the IRS.

It is good business to protect the consumer, and the government supports that mentality. PENSCO will not help someone enter into a prohibited transaction. If a lender was involved in a prohibited transaction on an IRA, then they would be subject to a 15% tax on the amount of the transaction. So a lender that made a $100,000 bill would receive a $15,000 bill. If the lender was not aware of the prohibited transaction, then they may be exempt from the tax.

When an investor is told that he cannot buy a property from himself with his IRA, he may get the idea of having a friend buy his property, and then re-buying from his friend. However, this is still considered an illegal transaction. This is considered a linked transaction by the IRS. You will not go to jail for performing a transaction like this unless you fail to pay the penalty taxes. However, the IRS tends to not inform you of your mistakes until 3 years later, so you can get caught off guard if you are not careful.

If you buy a property through your IRA while using your brother as a lender, you will not be taxed so long as your brother does not receive more than his regular fee.

A Prohibited Transaction Exemption (PTE) is a request submitted to the Department of Labor when you anticipate that your potential transaction may be prohibited. A PTE is usually granted on the basis that there is no increase or decrease in value because of the transaction. You cannot submit a PTE after the transaction takes place. The exemption comes in writing, so the Good Day rule does not apply.

There are some custodians who offer check book IRAs. Tom believes this practice will probably be extinct soon. There are only two custodians Tom knows of that will do check book IRAs, and PENSCO is one of them.

Tom’s website is www.penscotrust.com

For more information about The Norris Group’s California hard money loans or our California Trust Deed investments, visit the website or call our office at 951-780-5856 for more information. For upcoming California real estate investor training and events, visit The Norris Group website and our California investor calendar. You’ll also find our award-winning real estate radio show on KTIE 590am at 6pm on Saturdays or you can listen to over 170 podcasts in our free investor radio archive.

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203-TNG Radio – Tom Anderson 12-04-10

Friday, December 3rd, 2010

Tom Anderson

Chairman and Founder of PENSCO Trust Company


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This week Bruce is joined by Tom Anderson. Tom is the chairman and founder of PENSCO Trust Company. He is considered by many to be the national expert on the topic of self directed IRAs. He focuses on how investors can increase their wealth-building potential with real estate and private equity investments. He has written articles for nearly all nations and financial magazines. He was recently invited to Washington as part of the “Future of Finance Initiative” for the Obama Administration.

Tom has been in the banking business for 41 years and in the self-directed investment business for 22. The government is paying more attention to retirement issues, because there is concern over social security. Unfortunately, we are still in the dark ages in regards to knowledge of self directed investments. Many people are surprised by the idea that you can buy mutual funds with your retirement account. Many Americans are unhappy with being locked into their 401Ks, other pension plans, and other IRAs. Those retirement plans only offer a limited range of investments, and most of the options are related to Wall Street, which many people have lost a lot of money on recently. The only commodity that hasn’t taken much damage is gold, but Tom thinks most people didn’t get into Gold until after it had already experienced increases, so gold probably won’t be a good long term investment.

When Tom was in Washington, he was surprised by how interested the government was in hearing about his industry. The Retirement Industry Trust Association, which represents 90% of the self-directed custodians in the U.S., was invited to write a white paper on the need for more diversification in retirement accounts. Unfortunately, many of the government workers that Tom was speaking to before have been replace, so he has some influential ground to recover. He does feel though that the government in general has become more open to new ideas on improving retirement savings. As the president of the RITA, it is Tom’s goal to use any opportunity to discuss retirement issues with the government.

IRAs were created in 1974 as part of the ERISA Act. You could self direct an IRA back then. You could buy real estate in New Zealand if you desired to, but most people weren’t aware of that, because the securities and mutual fund companies began lobbying against real estate as a prudent retirement investment plan.

Real estate is a great long term investment. Real estate generally out paces the stock market on a long term basis. In California, you can buy properties that cashflow. When there is a down turn, it’s a great time to take advantage of real estate and ride the curve up.

Before 1974, there were pension plans but no IRAs. One of the reasons IRAs were created was because trustees were abusing their privileges. The trustees were spending the money they received to buy yachts and they would frequently lose the money given to them. Because of this, the government felt it was necessary to allow people to save on their own.

Self-directed is a frequently misunderstood word. IRAs are IRas regardless of where they are held, and the rules are dictated by the IRS. Depending on where the IRA is held, the custodian may limit what an investor can do with their IRA. There are two types of self-directed IRAs. The first is known as a self-directed brokerage account. With a self-directed brokerage account, you can pick from stocks and mutual funds to invest in, but you cannot invest in real estate or private equity. The other type of IRA allows you to invest in anything permitted by law. Some of Tom’s clients have bought companies in Spain and properties in New Zealand. When you buy outside the country, you have to consider the exchange differences. If the foreign monetary value increases against the U.S. dollar, then you can profit from both the investment and the monetary change.

There is a level of sophistication required to invest in certain categories. Tom encourages people to stick to what they know. If you own a gas station and know about gas as an investment, then you may want to use your IRA to invest in another gas station.

There are some laws regarding who and how you can deal with your IRA. There is that limits one’s ability to work with more than 3 unaccredited investors. In some cases, you cannot work with any unaccredited investors. To be an accredited investor you must have a minimum net worth of $1 million, and at least $200,000 in income for the last two years. The SEC may change their definition of “accredited investor”. Tom believes the requirements for an accredited investor will increase, because many people have lost money in stocks and private equity.

If someone wants to buy a trust deed or rental unit, they are free to do that, even if they only have $80,000 in their account.

Tom believes that IRAs are a great form of capital formation in the U.S. PENSCO started out with no assets and now has $3 billion worth of assets. PENSCO is also now funding thousands of companies that could not be started without IRAs, because they couldn’t get funding from traditional sources. There are about $4 trillion in IRA accounts.

Tom had a client who opened a $300 ROTH IRA. His company charges a $375 fee, so Tom knew the client must have had a plan. The client instructed PENSCO to send a $10 check to a lawyer in order to consummate a real estate option contract. This contract gave them the right for 30 days to buy property from a developer. The developer needed cash for $350,000. While the contract was being negotiated, the client found a buyer for a property for $525,000. Once he took the $525,000 from the buyer, he paid the seller $350,000, and moved the profit into his IRA account.

A ROTH IRA offers tax free growth for life and a great rate of return. One of Tom’s clients started a ROTH IRA with $1,800. This client used his ROTH IRA to develop a successful venture, and in 2002, that client cashed out with $32 million. He then took that $32 million and invested in other start ups. He has now increased his IRA holdings into 9 digit levels. Bruce thinks it is hard to believe that the IRS isn’t suspicious of this kind of tax free profit. Tom explains that this client helped create thousands of jobs. This fortunate client stimulated the economy and created tax revenue. 40% of new jobs are from start ups, and 70% are from small, private companies.

We still have 35 days to take advantage of a one time opportunity. Your IRA is now a portable pension plan, and can be converted into a ROTH IRA regardless of your income. Before 2006, this was not allowed. Before January 2010, if you made more than $100,000, you were prohibited from such conversions. You also have the opportunity this year to do the conversion to ROTH IRA and defer the taxation on the converted amount to 2011 and 2012. This means that if you convert in 2010, then in 2011 you must claim 50% of the converted amount on your income. The other 50% of the 2010 amount must be claimed in 2012. If you are expecting to be in a lower tax bracket in the future, this is a great opportunity for you. The government is very supportive of these conversions, because they get to collect the tax upfront.

If you bought assets that are currently depreciating, and if you have these assets in your IRA, then you can convert to a ROTH IRA and pay tax at a lower amount. This can allow those assets some time to recover. It is much better to convert a depreciated asset than an appreciated asset.

Capital gains rules do not apply within an IRA. When you take money out of an IRA, that money is taxed at a normal rate. However, if you have a ROTH IRA that has existed for 5 years, and if you are at age 59 and a half, then you can take out all your money tax free.

If you have a traditional IRA, at age 70 and a half, you have to take out minimum distributions. However, if you have a ROTH IRA, you can leave the money in the IRA as long as you want, and you can leave it to your children after you have died. There is also no estate tax, because the taxes have already been paid.

The use of leverage to purchase real estate is allowed with a ROTH IRA. It is possible to borrow up to 70% on any income producing property types on an IRA. You must put at least 30% down on the property though, because if the loan is recourse, then you would be self-dealing, which is prohibited. The 70% limit is according to bank policy, and they have had great success with this limit. They have very few foreclosures. Rates for loans are generally two points above prime. Many things can be negotiated as well.

There is actually a rule which allows you to bail out you IRA. If you got a 70% loan on a $100,000 house, and you put $30,000 down with your IRA. If you lose your tenant, and you do not have enough money in your IRA to make the payment, then you would typically be foreclosed on. In this kind of situation, there is a Department of Labor provision called AD-26, which allows you to lend money to your own IRA without limitation, so long as the money is being used to bail out the IRA account.

For more information about The Norris Group’s California hard money loans or our California Trust Deed investments, visit the website or call our office at 951-780-5856 for more information. For upcoming California real estate investor training and events, visit The Norris Group website and our California investor calendar. You’ll also find our award-winning real estate radio show on KTIE 590am at 6pm on Saturdays or you can listen to over 170 podcasts in our free investor radio archive.

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The Norris Group Real Estate News Roundup 10/12/10

Tuesday, October 12th, 2010

Looking Back:

Multiple states are cooperating in an investigation to determine whether or not lenders violated foreclosure laws when seizing houses from delinquent borrowers. The U.S. is now the second largest holder of U.S. debt. A survey from the National Association for Business Economics shows that economists expect gross domestic product will increase 2.6% in 2010 and 2011. According to a Thomson Reuters survey, 63% of potential home buyers are discouraged from buying a home because of the current economic conditions.

In The News:

MERS - “Statement by R.K. Arnold, President and CEO of MERSCORP, Inc.” (10-12-10)

“Claims that MERS disrupts or creates a defect in the mortgage or deed of trust are not supported by fact or legal precedents. This is often used as a tactic by lawyers to delay or prevent the foreclosure. The mortgage lien is granted to MERS by the borrower and the seller and that is what makes MERS the mortgagee.”

NAR - “NAR’s HouseLogic Launches Campaign to Help Military Families Sustain Homeownership” (10-11-10)

“The National Association of Realtors®’ HouseLogic, a free, comprehensive consumer website about all aspects of homeownership, today launched Operation Home Relief, a new Facebook Causes campaign. The campaign aims to increase awareness, rally support and raise funding for USA Cares, a nonprofit organization that provides counseling and financial foreclosure assistance to post-9/11 active duty U.S. military service personnel, veterans and their families. HouseLogic will donate $1 to USA Cares every time someone ‘likes’ the Operation Home Relief Cause page on Facebook and will match individual donations made to the cause, up to $20,000.”

Sign on San Diego – “Q&A: What’s going on with foreclosures?” (10-11-10)

“BofA – the only lender to have halted foreclosures in all 50 states – estimates that it could resolve the issue in as quickly as two or three weeks. Stan Humphries, an analyst with Zillow.com, an online real estate database, estimates that it could take 60 to 90 days for the entire industry to deal with the ‘robo-signer’ problem. But Humphries adds that the process could take longer if political pressure mounts for a wider-reaching examination of foreclosures.”

Los Angeles Times – “California might join probe of lenders that seized homes” (10-12-10)

“California officials are considering joining a multistate investigation of whether lenders have violated foreclosure laws when seizing houses from delinquent borrowers. The investigation, which is expected to be publicly announced Wednesday, is spearheaded by Iowa Atty. Gen. Tom Miller.”

Of Two Minds – “Imagining A Middle Class Does Not Create One” (10-12-10)

“Another measure of ‘middle class’ is even simpler: a middle class household owns some wealth. It could be a retirement fund, a free-and-clear home, a business, income property or gold/cash/investments. By that measure, the middle class comprises at best 20% of the populace.”

Bloomberg - “Foreclosure Freeze May Slow U.S. Homebuyers on Legal Worry” (10-10-10)

“A halt in home foreclosures at the largest U.S. mortgage firms may sideline buyers worried about legal issues, further depressing sales at a time when distressed properties account for almost a quarter of all transactions.”

Zero Hedge – “Three Horrifying Facts About the US Debt ‘Situation’” (10-12-10)

“this week we overtook Japan, leaving China as the only country with greater ownership of US Debt. And we’re printing money to buy it. Setting aside the fact that this is abject lunacy, this policy is trashing our currency which has fallen 13% since June… as in four months ago. Want an explanation for why stocks, commodities, and Gold are exploding higher? Here it is.”

Bloomberg - “Economists Cut U.S. Growth Forecasts Through 2011, Survey Shows” (10-11-10)

“Gross domestic product will increase 2.6 percent this year and next, according to the median of 46 economists surveyed by the National Association for Business Economics from Sept. 2 to Sept. 21. A May poll projected growth of 3.2 percent for both years. Economists also cut estimates for personal spending, employment and consumer prices.”

Housing Wire – “Zillow 30-year FRM rates hit record low for fourth consecutive week” (10-12-10)

“The 30-year, fixed-mortgage rate decreased from a week earlier, setting a new record low for the fourth consecutive week at 4.13%, according to the Zillow Mortgage Marketplace weekly update.”

Housing Wire - “Analysts optimistic on 3Q MBS REIT earnings” (10-12-10)

“With the end of the GSE buyouts, prepayment speeds slowed on agency MBS, peaking for Fannie Mae 30-year MBS at 29.9% in April and dropping down to 24.9% in September.”

Housing Wire – “Total Mortgage Services lowers rate on jumbo mortgages anticipating comeback” (10-12-10)

“Total Mortgage Services, a Connecticut-based mortgage lender/broker, sees a comeback in the jumbo mortgage market. The firm said because of a significant improvement in both competitive pricing and market liquidity for jumbo loans, it’s rate for a 30-year fixed jumbo mortgage is down to 4.9% for a loan up to $729,000.”

Housing Wire – “63% of Americans do not want to buy a home according to Reuters research” (10-12-10)

“According to a survey done by FindLaw.com, a Thomson Reuters company, 63% of respondents said they are steered away from buying a home because the current economic conditions. Only 8% said they are more likely to buy a home because of the state of the economy. About one quarter, 28%, said economic conditions do not sway their opinion about purchasing a home.”

Housing Wire – “Hoenig remains consistent with calls for no additional quantitative easing” (10-12-10)

“Speaking in Denver to the National Association of Business Economists, Thomas Hoenig said he understands the Fed’s desire to ‘do something, anything’ to revive the economy, but maintaining the zero-interest rate policy and starting a second round of quantitative easing aren’t it.”

Bloomberg - “Obama Backs State Foreclosure Probe, Against Nationwide Freeze, Gibbs Says” (10-12-10)

“President Barack Obama is throwing his support behind state attorneys general looking into filings of allegedly faulty home foreclosures while rejecting a nationwide freeze on home foreclosures because of potential ‘unintended consequences,’ said a White House spokesman.”

Bloomberg - “Real Estate `Trophy’ Prices Up 19% in Flat Market: Chart of the Day” (10-12-10)

“The CHART OF THE DAY shows prices for ‘trophy’ commercial properties are up 19 percent since bottoming in New York, Washington, San Francisco, Boston, Los Angeles and Chicago. The Moody’s/REAL Commercial Property Price Index tracking the entire U.S. has gained 1 percent from a seven-year low in October 2009.”

Bloomberg - “Foreclosure Delays May Cost U.S. Banks Up to $6 Billion, FBR’s Miller Says” (10-12-10)

“Faulty foreclosures may cost U.S. lenders $2 billion for every month that home seizures are delayed and the tab could reach $6 billion, according to Paul Miller, the bank analyst at FBR Capital Markets.”

Looking Back:

One year ago, Fitch reported that 60 percent of borrowers from 06 to 07 had negative equity. Interthinx’s Mortgage Fraud Index estimated that fraud decreased by 4 percent from Q1 to Q2 of 2009, but increased by 7 percent from Q2 of 2008. Statistics from MDA DataQuick showed that Southern California home sales increased by 5 percent from October of 2008.

For more information about The Norris Group’s California hard money loans or our California Trust Deed investments, visit the website or call our office at 951-780-5856 for more information. For upcoming California real estate investor training and events, visit The Norris Group website and our California investor event calendar. You’ll also find our award-winning real estate radio show on KTIE 590am at 6pm on Saturdays or you can listen to over 170 podcasts in our free investor radio archive.

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164-TNG Radio – Robert J. Samuelson 3-6-10

Friday, March 5th, 2010

Robert J Samuelson

Robert J. Samuelson

Author and Columnist

(Full Bio)


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This week Bruce is joined again this week by Robert J. Samuelson. Robert is an award winning columnist and author. He has been writing a column for The Washington Post since 1977, and for Newsweek since 1984. He has recently published a book named The Great Inflation and Its Aftermath: The Past and Future of American Influence.

One of the main claims in Samuelson’s recent book is that the rise and fall of inflation was the most significant event in the past 50 years. When most people think of the fall of inflation, they think of a very short time. One of Samuelson’s key points is that there was nothing usual about the last 25 years. Samuelson thinks the fall of inflation was even more important than the rise of inflation.

In the early 80s, inflation was reaching 15 percent, mortgage rates were around 15 percent, and the prime rate for good bank customers was over 20 percent. When inflation came down, interest rates came down slowly, because no one believed that inflation would come down. Asset prices, beginning with the stock market, began to increase during this time. The Dow Jones industrial average was between 800 and 900. There was an explosion in the stock market over the next 20 years. By 2000, the Dow was over 10,000. Stock market wealth within households went from about $1 trillion in the 80s to over $11 trillion at the end of the 90s.

Later, this increase in stock values lead to an increase in real estate values. For many years, consumers spent more of their income and borrowed more. There were only 2 modest recessions during this time in 1991 and 2001. This increase in wealth made people very careless. It conditioned them to take risks which they should not have taken, because they believed the economy had entered into a state of prolonged prosperity.

If you have a feeling of preordained success about an investment, you are probably ignoring a lot of the risk factors you would normally pay attention too. People thought that risk had gone down because of lower inflation. They also felt that they understood risk better. People then began to take more risks because of these two false assumptions. Lenders began to lend money to people with high levels of debt, and they did it with silly and destructive interest rates. People assumed that stock prices would increase forever. For many years, Samuelson warned people that things would not continue to increase forever. Some of those people looked at Samuelson with pity, because he wasn’t taking part in the stock market increase.

Great gains inspire perverse behavior. There were people who owned 50 and 60 homes, who did not have a normal job, with a $30,000 negative cash flow per month. They would show you their list of properties with pride, because they were worth $4 million. They assumed they would be able to sell all their properties to people who were even dumber than they were. These kinds of people were sure that their investments couldn’t go wrong.

Before the bubble burst, people had high expectations for success, which allowed them to grumble about things not being good enough. The paradox at that time was that they could only have grumbled if they expected themselves to be heading towards paradise. The fact that things had been so good for them allowed them to criticize the actual conditions. When historians look back at this time, they will likely conclude that the times were not that good, even thought they really were; the times just weren’t as good as people thought they should be.

Roughly 2/3 of today’s population are too young in 1980. They were either not alive, or they were in their pre-adult years. They were not aware of the 70s and the high inflation, but even the people who lived during that time forgot about it.

Samuelson knows a columnist who wrote about Reagan’s leadership qualities. Samuelson does think that Reagan was a good leader, but the columnist did not address inflation at all. This history is the lost history. Professional historians and economists have engaged in an act of amnesia. This is scary because people will be more likely to make the same mistakes in the future. Samuelson thinks it is good to have the truth for the sake of truth, but also because if we don’t know the truth we will likely repeat our mistakes. There are prominent economists who are claiming that a little more inflation would be okay. Samuelson believes that if we encourage a little inflation, we will end up with a lot of it.

When society is used to good times, it can be difficult to ask for sacrifices, depending on what sacrifice you are asking for and why. Today, we have made more promises to people than we can afford to keep. Most of these promises are to retirees through social security, Medicare, and Medicaid. The cost of paying for those programs, when the baby boomers retire, will be staggering. Our children will be saddled with very high taxes, high budget deficits, or great cuts in other services. If we explain this to people, perhaps they would be willing to make some sacrifices. They may have to cut back on benefits for retirees, and raise the eligibility age for those programs. There may also be some sort of tax increase. None of our political leaders have made the case for sacrificing for our own interest. They seem to be waiting for a crisis to happen, which will force them to do things they should have done on their own.

There seems to be a popular conception that hyperinflation will likely occur in the next 20 years. However, based on our current scenario, Bruce does not see this occurring any time soon. Bruce and Samuelson are more considered with short term deflation. Samuelson doesn’t understand how you get higher inflation when you have empty shopping malls, 10 percent unemployment, and surplus factory capacity. As long as the people running economic policy in this country don’t come to the conclusion that higher inflation is better, we shouldn’t have it in the near future. When Samuelson says near future, he means 3 to 5 years.

In the long term, some people say that we will have to inflate because we have so much debt. The problem is that it is not easy to inflate your way out of debt. Forty percent of inflation turns over in a year or two. If you raise the inflation rate, you don’t really erode the debt, because you just have to refinance it at higher interest rates. In theory it seems like a practical choice, but in reality, it is not realistic.

Economists make the mistake of assuming that the economy responds in a mechanical way to credit, interest rates, government spending, and taxes. These things are significant, but Samuelson doesn’t think they are everything.

What happened in Japan was that they had an economic model, from the 50s to the middle 80s, which worked well for them. They had an export led economy, and they had an undervalued exchange rate. Their domestic economy was not very dynamic, but their exports kept growth and investment high. That model didn’t work in 80s because the exchange rate appreciated dramatically, and their exports became less competitive. This caused the Japanese to settle into a low growth mode, and they haven’t found a different economic model that works better. Contrary to what people learn in college economics, monetary and fiscal policy cannot change that kind of problem. The Japanese efforts to expand their economy through large budget deficits and loose monetary policy didn’t work. Their policy was dynamic internationally, but not domestically, and Samuelson thinks that is the problem in Japan.

If deflation became anticipated, it would be very destructive. Samuelson doesn’t think that modest price decreases would be that bad for a little while. However, if people think that prices will decrease forever, then they won’t borrow money, because their debt burdens will rise. They will postpone buying because the car they could buy today will be expected to fall even more in the future. This mentality will reduce demand, and then unemployment will increase.

Bruce asks Samuelson about what has changed in the baby boom generation’s expectation for retirement. Samuelson claims that this question is a little above his competence, because he is at the very edge of the baby boom generation. Samuelson feels that his retirement has become much less certain. He has saved a fair amount of money, but one thing he has learned is that markets don’t always increase. For example, if you have $100,000 on Thursday, six months from Thursday you may only have $100,000 minus 30 percent of its value. If you thought that money amount would be adequate to supply you through retirement, you may discover later on that it isn’t. That whole generation is probably feeling that same way about their retirement savings. Bruce thinks this mentality will cause a scenario that will not be inflationary. The economists that Samuelson talks to claim that people have short memories, so if we get into a fast growing economy for a few years, then their mentality of fear will disappear. However, Samuelson tends to agree with Bruce in his belief that these setbacks will leave people with a scarred mentality.

Samuelson wrote that the baby boom generation was the benefactor of large chunks of profit. They had the stock market increase, and then they had the real estate increase. This caused the baby boom generation to accumulate a lot of equity. Most of the GDP growth after 2002 came from equity growth and the extraction of it. Bruce wonders what is going to fuel the GDP growth going forward. This makes Bruce think, “How will we get inflation if we will have difficulty obtaining a moderate GDP growth?” Samuelson says that in an ideal world, the source of growth for the next 10 years would come from higher exports, fewer imports, and investment related to those thins. Also, more investment into our energy infrastructure might help as well. Specifically, natural gas could help us a lot now that we know we have more than we previously thought. Also, oil production can make a big difference for our potential economic growth.

After the Great Depression, a pact was made between the government and big business. Bruce asks if Samuelson sees another pact being made today. Samuelson does not see another pact being made today. The pact that occurred in the past was informal and unstable. After World War II, businesses did not want to be reviled in the same way they had been during the Great Depression. Because of this, businesses submitted to social and economic regulation in return for continued market freedom. What we should have today is a generational pact in which the baby boomers agree to reduce their benefits, so that we can take those burdens off of the young. This will allow them to start businesses, have children, and live in such a way so that a significant chunk of their income isn’t being drained to support their grandparents. Bruce completely agrees with this. There are plenty of people who can afford to pay for their own retirement, instead of having their grandchildren be taxed for it.

Robert Samuelson has created one heck of a book: The Great Inflation and Its Aftermath: The Past and Future of American Influence.

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152-TNG Radio – Hugh Bromma 12-12-09

Friday, December 11th, 2009

Hugh Bromma, CEO of Entrust

Hugh Bromma

CEO, Entrust

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This week Bruce is joined once again by Hugh Bromma. Hugh is the CEO for Entrust Group. The Entrust Group was founded in 1981. Hugh is recognized as an industry spokesperson in the self-directed market. Entrust provides tax enhanced services such as self directed IRAs, and qualified plans to tax payers. Entrust manages over $4 billion worth in assets.

Bruce begins by asking if any big changes are coming up in 2010 that will affect what people may do with their IRA. Anyone who wants to convert a traditional IRA to a Roth IRA may do so without any income caps. These converters may pay taxes over 3 years for the amount that they convert from their traditional IRA. Before, the income cap was $100,000, even if the traditional IRA was for a couple. Now a person with a very large IRA may convert to a Roth.

When you use a Roth, you do not pay any taxes. With a traditional IRA, you pay taxes as soon as you get distributions.

The government chose to formulate the Roth program because it allows them to be paid in advance. This program has made the traditional IRA fundamentally obsolete for people who want to pay taxes upfront on an asset that they know will depreciate dramatically.

To make the conversion from the traditional IRA to a Roth, you must pay taxes on both a federal and state level. Some states may have higher taxes than others. There are times when making a conversion is a bad decision. Anybody who contemplates a conversion should speak to a tax professional, because everyone’s tax situation is going to be different. One must determine whether it is advantageous to pay taxes up front or over time. If you have an asset in your IRA with a very low market value, but will appreciate tremendously, then it is probably a good idea to convert that asset.

If you are unsure of the value of your assets, then you should have it appraised, or you should hire a broker who will provide you values on comps.

Leverages are permitted when transferring from an IRA to a Roth. The debt is going to be a true non-recourse to the individual. The title and the debt of the properties in the IRA will be paid for, and signed by, the retirement account. There is an unrelated debt financed income tax, which may be paid on that debt portion. You must pay tax on the money that you borrow from your IRA, but the amount will be relatively insignificant.

The Roth IRA was established in 1998. Hugh Bromma has an expertise that Bruce does not think most people understand. Bruce has never been asked, “What are you doing with your Roth?” This surprised Hugh.

If you have an established Roth IRA, you cannot make a direct contribution to your Roth if your income exceeds $100,000. In 2010, if you drag a maximum contribution to your traditional IRA, then you will be able to pay the tax and make that direct contribution. This change in 2010 will be permanent.

Bruce did research on the highest tax rates in the U.S. since 1913. He was shocked to discover that 80 percent of the time, the top tax rate was over 60 percent. This scares Bruce and Hugh, and they fear that some high tax changes will take place in 2011.

At 59 and a half, if you have an established 5-year Roth IRA, then you can start taking distributions without penalties. If you start taking distributions prior to 59 and a half, or from an unestablished Roth, there is a 10 percent penalty for premature withdrawal. If you die, then your Roth IRA will still be subject to an estate tax.

With a Roth IRA, you cannot get a second home for personal use. Secondary homes may only be used for investment purposes. You cannot live in it, use it, personally repair it, or do property management on it. Cousins and in-laws are allowed to use a secondary home, but not your son, daughter or wife. You are also prohibited from hiring a son-in-law from rehabbing the home. The rules state that you are not allowed to receive a current benefit from your Roth assets. This rule includes yourself and someone that is related to you. Also, if you have ownership in an IRA or Roth then you may not use funds outside of that account for rehabbing or loan payments. If you do make a mortgage payment using money outside of your IRA, it is considered an excess contribution and it is reportable to the IRS. You will be forced to withdraw that mortgage payment by the next year, or you will be penalized for 6 percent of the amount of the infraction.

It is also against the rules to put money from your Roth account into a company that you are a manager of. If you own 10 percent or more of such a company then you are subject to penalization.

If people try to find a way around the rules, they are almost guaranteed to get caught. Some people who try to commit illegal transactions lose the entire value of their IRA. However, it is not considered a criminal act to commit an illegal transaction. Illegal transactions are punished through extreme taxes. Illegal transactions are a great benefit to the IRS, so there is no need for the IRS to prosecute.

Bruce thought of a creative transaction that might occur between two people: There are two investors who know each other, but are not partners in any business. They both buy properties at trustee sales. Buyer A buys a house using his own money, and then gives Buyer B the option to buy it for a dollar more than he paid. Buyer B fixes it, sells it, and the proceeds over the cost go to the Roth IRA of the other guy, and then the buyer receiving the benefit returns the favor. Bruce asks Hugh if this is an okay transaction. Hugh says that they must consider whether or not their transaction could be seen as a sham from the IRS. This transaction could be considered a sham, because its intent is to avoid paying taxes. It gets down to intent and Bruce decides to scrath that plan.

Bruce brings up leveraging with Options. Bruce talks about optioning land in the coming years and how that would be structured. Bruce knows someone who made $30 million on that plan, but it wasn’t in a Roth. If he had made that transaction in his Roth then the transaction would be legal. Options are one of the best uses for Roths. Options is one of the best plays that savvy Roth IRA investors use to increase their accounts.

Bruce’s Roth could have enough money to do a real estate transaction every month. He could fix properties and resell them 12 times every year. This may or may not be a problem with the IRA. If you are doing this kind of work professionally, and you are perceived as a dealer, then it is not illegal to do it within a retirement account. However, there may be dealer issues outside of the IRA. This is typically not a problem. One of the obligations you have for your individual retirement account is to make a lot of money. If you are using that money to make 10 option plays every year, then you will probably not have any issues. If someone uses their IRA to hire sales people for their property sales, then they will be labeled as a dealer. Richard Lipton has written a few articles on this subject.

If someone has a buy-sell operation with employees, but also has a Roth that does the same activity on a smaller scale, then that would probably be okay. Hugh is not completely certain about this, depends on their mood, but he considers the IRS to be reasonable in the tax courts.

Spec building is allowed with Roths, as well as land ownership and trust deed investment. Entrust needs a complete package before it cuts loose with an investor’s funds. The package is up to the IRA owner, but Entrust needs to make sure that you have an asset that can be titled in the name of the trust for an individual retirement account. Unfortunately, sometimes people will try to buy or sell a note, but they then discover that their note is actually a private placement or some other sort of asset. Buying an existing note and investing in a trust deed that is currently initiating involves the same fundamental process.

Bruce asks Hugh to describe the term “checkbook access”. A checkbook IRA is an LLC that is usually sold to someone from a lawyer. It is a single member LLC that is allowed to be owned by an individual retirement account. That LLC is run by the IRA owner. Hugh has discovered that many people use this system to make prohibited transactions. Entrust has developed a Real Checkbook IRA in which a person receives a debit card and a checkbook, which becomes an asset of their IRA. They may then buy their investments using that methodology.

Hugh Bromma’s website is www.theentrustgroup.com. Bruce and Hugh will be teaching together at an investment seminar on January 2nd.

The Entrust website can be found at www.theentrustgroup.com. January 22nd, Hugh and Bruce will be teaching together.

We’d like to thank Hugh Bromma and Entrust for sponsoring I Survived Real Estate 2009. Thank you!

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The Norris Group Real Estate News Roundup 12/08/09

Tuesday, December 8th, 2009

Today’s News Synopsis:

Chase Home Finance reports that 29 percent of its HAMP trial plans failed to become permanent. Research from Altos Research shows that home prices decreased in 24 of the 25 markets that the company observes. A credit analysis of 27 million consumers lead TransUnion to estimate that delinquencies of 60 days or more will drop 3 percent by the end of 2010.

In The News:

Housing Wire – “HAMP Must Address Second Liens, Congress Hears” (12-8-09)

“Mortgage servicing firms make money off servicing fees, which are based on the principal amount — a disincentive for reducing principal, Goodman said. Servicers are often owned by large financial institutions that hold second liens. If principal reduction is left up to the banks’ discretion, she said, the conflicting financial interests will likely restrict principal reduction, she said.”

Housing Wire – “Chase Converts 2% of Offered HAMP Trials into Permanency” (12-8-09)

“For every 100 HAMP trial plans initiated by Chase Home Finance from April to through September, 29 borrowers did not make the required payments and failed to reach a permanent status, according to testimony from Molly Sheehan, senior vice president at Chase Home Finance.”

Housing Wire - “List Prices Declined in 25 of 26 Markets: Altos Research Index” (12-8-09)

“The Altos Research 10-city index of home listing prices decreased 0.4% from October to November, and prices fell in 25 of the 26 major markets the Mountain View, Calif.-based real estate market research firm tracks.”

Housing Wire – “Prices Up For Second Straight Quarter in Freddie Index” (12-8-09)

“Home prices increased for the second straight quarter in Freddie Mac’s (FRE: 1.11 +2.78%) Conventional Mortgage Home Price Index (CMHPI). The purchase-only index increased 0.9% from Q209 to Q309, following a 2% increase from Q109 to Q209. The two quarters of increases are equal to about 40% of the declines experienced in Q408 and Q109. For the 12-month period ending in Q309, home sales prices were down 3.9%.”

Housing Wire – “Mortgage Delinquencies to Decrease in 2010: TransUnion” (12-8-09)

“Based on credit performance of 27m consumers, national credit bureau TransUnion projects mortgage delinquencies of 60 or more days to drop nearly 3% by year-end 2010 to 6.39%, from an expected 6.56% at year-end 2009.”

Housing Wire – “House Prices Lose 0.5% in October, IAS Says” (12-8-09)

“House prices continued to decline in October, falling 0.5% across the US, according to the latest data compiled by default management and residential collateral valuation service provider Integrated Asset Services (IAS). The Northeast and Midwest census regions both slipped (1.6% and 0.3% respectively) and the South and West regions gained a respective 1.1% and 0.5%.”

Bloomberg – “Calpers Real-Estate Holdings Decline 30% During First Quarter“ (12-8-09)

“The California Public Employees’ Retirement System, the largest state-run U.S. public pension, saw the value of first-quarter real estate holdings decline 30 percent and is terminating contracts with some investment firms behind the loss, a consultant for the fund said.”

Bloomberg – “Citigroup Said to Push for Bailout-Payback Agreement This Week” (12-8-09)

“Citigroup Inc. Chief Executive Officer Vikram Pandit is pressing the U.S. Treasury Department and regulators to agree as soon as this week on a plan to pay back $20 billion remaining from a government bailout, people familiar with the matter said.”

Inman - “SEC charges former New Century execs” (12-8-09)

“Three former executives of New Century Financial Corp. — one of the most prominent subprime lenders during the housing boom — have been charged with securities fraud for allegedly misleading investors.”

Orange County Register – “Will new appraisal rules hurt FHA borrowers?” (12-8-09)

“On January 1, 2010 FHA will require the Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC) process for all appraisals, falling in line with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. For a multitude of reasons this will be tremendously negative for the market, for buyers and for sellers.  It will further depress property values, it will hinder sellers ability to get open offers and most importantly it will prohibit many FHA buyers from even having their offers looked at by sellers in multiple offer situations-even if they have higher offers.”

Looking Back:

One year ago, data from the 14 largest banks revealed that 53 percent of borrowers with modified mortgages were more than 30 days late on their payments after six months.  Statistics from DataQuick showed that Orange County home prices declined by 18 percent from 2007 to 2008. Delinquency rates for mortgage loans rose to 3.96 percent.

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151-TNG Radio – Hugh Bromma 12-5-09

Friday, December 4th, 2009

Hugh Bromma, CEO of Entrust

Hugh Bromma

CEO, Entrust

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This week Bruce is joined by Hugh Bromma. He is the CEO for Entrust Group. The Entrust Group was founded in 1981. Hugh is recognized as an industry spokesperson in the self-directed market. Entrust provides tax enhanced services such as self directed IRAs, and qualified plans to tax payers.

Bruce has known Hugh for a long time, so this interview is long overdue. The Entrust website is one of the most informative web sites that Bruce has ever seen.

When Entrust started in 1981, Hugh was the only person working for company other than his consultant. The consultant did financial industry consulting, but he was not in the IRA business. Hugh dealt with the IRAs and qualified plans. There are currently about 200 employees in Entrust. The company has over $4 billion in assets, and approximately 50,000 clients.

The first book Hugh wrote was “How to Invest in Real Estate Using Your IRA or 401K”. That book was written in 2003. Hugh himself invests in real estate in California.

The growth of Hugh’s company has grown far greater than he had expected. Part of his company’s plan was to create individual retirement accounts that are available to everyone. Entrust is the only company with a franchise who does this.

Entrust is a record keeping and administrating company for individual retirement accounts and qualified plans. Its emphasis is for self-directed investment in real estate, notes, and private placements. In 1975, ERISA made it possible to make a self directed decision for retirement funds. Before 1975, companies had defined benefit plans. ERISA made it possible to have defined contribution plans and 401Ks, which allowed individuals to defer money into the plan that their employer has provided.

In a defined benefit plan, there is supposed to be a check for everyone in a predetermined amount. If someone makes a mistake, and money is lost from a year or two, then problems can occur. When there are losses, or insufficient funds, then the employer has to find a way to make up for that lost money. Sometimes a defined benefit plan can be closed, and then rolled into a defined contribution plan, so that the pension is no longer defined. This means that people will lose their defined benefit plan, and a large sum of their retirement fund. The people losing their retirement plans cannot stop their pension managers from doing this. A city in Northern California declared bankruptcy, because 90 percent of its income was lost in a fixed cost of retirement.

In the end, the ERISA did not make most people wealthier. Self-directed does not always mean that good decisions are always made.

Entrust does not give investment advice, but it does give people a lot of education. However, Entrust will often refer their clients to experts for advice. Bruce thinks that is a great service. Entrust does not often have to worry about people opening up accounts who do not know what to do with their money. Entrust emphasizes education before their clients open an account.

Entrust is an administrator and record keeper for custodian banks. This means that banks hire Entrust to keep records for individual retirement accounts. Many custodians suggest investments to their clients, and the investment advice they give you will most likely be directed toward their area of expertise.

People can easily discover the status of a bank fairly easily. If a bank is having problems, and if they’re ratings are low, then you may have to worry about that bank going out of business. Many of those banks will be absorbed by an FDIC selected bank.

Most custodians do not know the rules and regulations for their business, which is why they use Entrust. Entrust acts as a decision making filter for custodians.

Webinars have become incredibly popular, and many of Entrust’s offices do weekly webinars. You do not have to worry about audience interaction during a webinar. Most of the people attending Entrust seminars are sophisticated individuals, who know how they want to use their money, and know what a self-directed IRA is, and want to be more informed about what they can do with their account. Most of the people attending these seminars are not beginners, and some have had accounts for 20 years. Beginners are encouraged to attend introduction seminars.

There are some limitations on self-directed IRAs. Collectibles such as gems, works of art, beverages, collectible coins, stamps, and antiques are not permitted. Self dealing transactions are also not permitted. Any investment from which the investor may receive an immediate benefit is not allowed. Precious metals such as gold, silver, and platinum are allowed. However, you cannot hold these precious metals within your home. If someone does choose to illegally hold a precious metal, then it becomes a distribution at the market value as of December 31st of the year in which the transaction took place. It is distributed to the individual, and it is taxed, and it may include an excise tax, as well as other penalties. These taxes may be as costly as 150 percent of the value of each bar of gold.

Small rules change relatively frequently. There are private letter rulings and prohibited transaction exemptions that change the interpretation of the established rules. Primary Code changes do not happen very often. There have been about 10 code changes in the last 20 years.

In Hugh’s newsletter, there was an article that said, “Never let a good crisis go to waste”. Bruce asks if self-directed investors are more likely to buy at a bottom, or if they are more likely to invest according to a trend and be damaged by it. Hugh says there are investors that have an understanding of trends, and they are able to predict a good time to buy into the market. There are some investors that are not educated, and will injure themselves by investing during a trend. Hugh says that investors are now beginning to invest in real estate again. Hugh knows this because lots of people are obtaining more cash for real estate deals. Many people believe that we are near the bottom.

Approximately 1.5 to 2 percent of all U.S. dollars in retirement accounts are in self-directed IRAs. The other 98 percent of the retirement money is invested into stocks, bonds, mutual funds, certificates, and insurance products. Those decisions are not made by the people holding the retirement fund, the decisions are made by someone in the qualified plan market. 80 percent of the people who makes those decisions will never change their investments for the entire life of their 401K, so they will never be able to take advantage of a low or high market. They have to hope that they will retire during a market peak.

The most common retirement vehicles for self-employed individuals are SEP IRAs, or individual 401K plans. They can set aside anywhere from $46,000 to $51,000 per year for earned income. There is no percentage limitation on how much of your income you can put into those 2 plans, so long as you do not invest more than that maximum limit.

The Entrust website can be found at www.theentrustgroup.com. January 22nd, Hugh and Bruce will be teaching together.

We’d like to thank Hugh Bromma and Entrust for sponsoring I Survived Real Estate 2009. Thank you!

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150-TNG Radio – Craig Hill 11-28-09

Friday, November 27th, 2009

craig_hill

Craig Hill

Hard Money Broker

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This week Bruce is joined once again by Craig Hill. Craig has been handling The Norris Group’s hard money loan business for over ten years, and he is a trustee investor.

Many new investors think that it is easy to get into the real estate buying business. To reduce risk, The Norris Group uses Rick Solis to appraise properties through the eyes of an investor. Sometimes new investors will find a property, and they think they have a good deal, but then Rick will look at the property and find problems with their deal. For an example, an investor might try to buy a property in an area with comparable sales located on 8,000 square foot lots, but the property they are trying to buy is on a 4,000 square foot lot. That 4,000 square foot difference could make a $20,000 dollar difference. Rick can easily spot these devaluing problems and save these new investors money. Craig has received multiple responses from investors who are thankful for Rick’s services.

A new investor wants to get their first house under their belt. One of the things a new investor may do is try to prove that a house is a good deal, rather than let the evidence speak for itself. These people might feel that if they can just buy a house and sell it for a profit then everything will be a little bit better. Those are the kinds of people that will typically make a mistake. When people are trying to make up for lost time, they often try to do too much too quick. You cannot become a millionaire in one deal, but you can ruin your finances in one deal. Craig has met many people who tried to be too aggressive, and then lost a lot of money. During the boom, people felt like they couldn’t lose, and they didn’t want to believe that the up cycle would end. Now people are starting to have success again, and Craig fears that they will go back into that same mentality. Craig warns that you should be able to handle a rental property. If a rental property is going to ruin your life then you shouldn’t be investing.

If someone came to The Norris Group with a great deal on a $1.2 million dollar house, The Norris Group would probably not help that investor, because there is a lot of risk involved in that deal. If an investor discovers that his $1.2 million house is not really worth $1.2 million, or if the investor starts making $7 grand payments, they can severely damage themselves.

If Craig had to choose between a borrower with a high credit score and low cash reserves, or a borrower with a lower credit score and more cash reserves, he would choose to loan to the borrower with high cash reserves. When you are dealing with investments, you need to have cash. If an investor doesn’t have enough cash reserves, he may want to think that he can make the investment work with only six months worth of reserved payment. His property may take more than six months to pay off, and his credit will not help him, because The Norris Group’s program is not credit based. They cannot get a loan to improve their situation. If a person has a lot of cash reserved, it makes it better for both the investor and the lender.

Many unexpected problems can occur when you invest in a house. Craig bought one house to fix up and flip, but the sewer immediately needed to be fixed. If an investor cannot handle those kinds of surprises, then she is jeopardizing herself.

If Craig had to choose between a borrower with cash into the deal, or a borrower that got a superior discount in the purchase who is looking for a zero down loan, he would still choose the borrower with cash in the deal. There might be a reason why the other client got a superior deal that won’t reveal itself until later. Also, the zero down investor may not be capable of handling the monthly debt on the investment. If you have $50,000 in cash reserves, you will be much more comfortable making an investment. When you do not have that kind of cash in reserve, you may feel a need to make a deal, and that causes problems. People often get caught up in the idea of making a property investment, but their ideas may not work out in reality.

If Craig had to choose between a borrower who is an experienced investor with a 650 FICA score and has a proven track record with The Norris Group, or a new borrower with a 750 FICA score and the same amount of money, Craig would choose the experienced investor with a good record. Many people have had troubles within the past few years, so a 650 FICA score may mean that they have also had trouble, but they are working through it. A track record with The Norris Group is important, because that experienced investor respects their business relationships. Dealing with a lender who knows their track record allows them to do their business, and if their investments are their livelihood, then they will probably not sacrifice their relationship with their lender.

When loaning to an owner occupant, there is never an intention to develop a relationship for future business. An owner occupant might be taking a severe risk with the $20,000 they take in a loan.

If Craig had to choose between a borrower with a job, good credit score, and a money partner, or a borrower who is a self employed, full time investor using their own money, Craig would choose the self employed investor. People who use money partners are historically known to cause problems. They may not take into account that surprises will come up, such as unexpected repairs or a delay in the selling process. The Norris Group will do business with money partners, but Craig is much more involved with those people. Craig often requires the partner to sign the deal along with the borrower, because they need to know that a property is a responsibility.

If Craig had to choose between a borrower who is a cocky and experienced investor with lots of money, or a new investor with less money and a humble attitude open to learning, Craig would probably choose the humble investor. He strays away from the know-it-all attitudes. Craig has had thousands of conversations with investors, and he has a good sense for the kind of person who will work hard to protect his investment. The cocky, know-it-all investor is often a one-time deal. The cocky investors will often call Craig, give him a big conversation about how this deal is an opportunity for him, but their “deal” is really only borderline. Sometimes these cocky, experienced investors will be trying to use Craig after their other lenders reject them.

Over the years, Craig has developed a good sense for when people are not telling him all their problems. When you have had thousands of conversations with borrowers, you develop a sense for conversation patterns, which lead to certain outcomes. It would be difficult for Craig to have an original conversation at this point. He has probably heard what any new investor will tell him many, many times. The Norris Group does not want to do deals with just anyone who can qualify. The Norris Group wants to do deals with people that make good matches with the company. Craig deals with both borrowers and investors, and he wants to make sure that his deals are winning deals for both ends.

The Norris Group does not work with pooled trust deeds and never will. If you used pooled money, you have much less control. When an investor buys a trust deed, he knows the property it’s going to be on, the amount, and he knows what the appraisal on the property is worth. The investor can easily find out what his investment is. With pooled funds (fractionalized trust deeds), the manager of the pool has a lot of discretion. You might have some possible investments that you would not take if you personally inspected them.

The reality of what is happening to your investment can be masked in a pooled trust deed. In a pooled trust deed, you make regular payments. You can make these regular payments for a long time, but by the time your investment is not worthwhile, your investment may be upside-down. With an individual investment, you are receiving monthly payments from one person on one trust deed, so you would know after 30 days if the borrower was 30 days late.

There are some lenders who do not require monthly payments, but Bruce always does. He wants them to know that they have a debt, and it prevents them from getting overextended.

A pooled investment might attract a smaller investor. The Norris Group does not usually give out loans that are only worth $30,000 to $40,000. A person who has $50,000 they want to invest, but they require the $500 dollar payment every month to live on, then they are not a good candidate for a trust deed.

Bruce asks Craig to explain how he makes people feel comfortable investing. Craig likes to show people examples of what The Norris Group does. Craig sends new investors a copy of a The Norris Group appraisal, so they can see what The Norris Group does to calculate value. Once Craig makes people feel comfortable with what they are lending on, they are anxious to invest in a trust. The majority of the people that work with The Norris Group trust deeds want to ramp their investment up as high as it can go. When they do ramp it up, the majority of them have chosen that as one of their main investment vehicles. Many people who deal with trust deeds have a diversity of investments. They do not want to put all their eggs in one basket.

The Norris Group sees trust deed investments as a great way to offer diversification of a retirement account.  You can also diversify your trust deed investments by selecting multiple areas.

The Norris Group has a new 8-year loan program for investors who plan to buy and hold a property as a rental. This new program has opened up a new investment at 9% for 8 years. This program is great for people who have IRA money, or money in 401Ks, because they can earn 9% tax free. The nice thing about this 8-year program is that the loan is intended to go on for an extended period.

Craig can be reached at 951-780-5856. He will be glad to talk to you about borrowing money.

See Craig’s full biography HERE.

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