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204-TNG Radio – Tom Anderson 12-11-10

Friday, December 10th, 2010

Tom Anderson

Chairman and Founder of PENSCO Trust Company


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This week Bruce is joined again by Tom Anderson. Tom is the chairman and founder of PENSCO Trust Company. He is considered by many to be the national expert on the topic of self directed IRAs. He focuses on how investors can increase their wealth-building potential with real estate and private equity investments. He has written articles for nearly all the nation’s and financial magazines. He was recently invited to Washington as part of the “Future of Finance Initiative” for the Obama Administration.

You can loan money to your IRA if you attempting to protect the existence of the IRA. You cannot loan money to your IRA to buy new lots. The loan must also be interest free. If it did have an interest rate, the loan would be considered self dealing, because you would be taking profit out of your IRA. Lastly, if the loan extends more than 60 days, you must provide the custodian with a note explaining that the IRA owes you money.

Tom recently spoke to a member of the Department of Labor who created this exemption, and the member confirmed that you could loan money to your IRA to bail it out of mortgage delinquency.

There are some IRA investments which may or may not be considered illegal depending on which government official is reviewing the investment. For example, Tom once heard of a man who used his IRA to buy a classic car. Because the car is a classic, there is good reason to believe the car will appreciate. However, a government official might consider this self dealing, because they may or may not perceive the classic car to be for personal use. If the government perceives the car to be for personal use, then the car purchase would be labeled self dealing. Depending on which day the car purchase was reviewed, and depending on who reviewed the purchase, this may or may not be a legal IRA purchase. You can perform a large variety of transactions within your IRA, but you must be careful not to purchase anything that the government might perceive as self dealing. If the government believes you are self dealing with your IRA, then your IRA will lose its tax-deferred status.

Bruce’s business is set up to buy and sell real estate. Bruce asks Tom if there is a limit on how much money, or how many houses, he could use for his IRA. Tom believes that this is up for interpretation. In Bruce’s case, he owns a real estate business, so if he performs many transactions through his IRA, the government may possibly perceive Bruce to be running a business through his IRA. All businesses must pay taxes, and if the government determined that Bruce was running his business through his IRA, then he might lose the tax-deferred status of his IRA. Tom believes that if Bruce was both working in his IRA for retirement investments, and out of it for business use, then it would be hard for the government to label Bruce’s IRA as a business. However, if Bruce was retired, and he only purchased and sold properties through his IRA, then the government may perceive Bruce to be running a business through his IRA. You should consult with your CPA to determine whether or not you will be subject to taxes.

A disqualified person is a term in the Internal Revenue Code 4975 which defines certain entities as people you cannot perform transactions with. The government does not want you to touch your IRA assets, because they want your assets to be there when you retire. So you cannot buy a condo in a vacation spot with your IRA, and then use that condo on the weekends. Disqualified persons include yourself, your spouse, your children, and the spouses of your children. Most people in your family are considered disqualified persons, except for siblings, nephews and uncles. If you deal with a sibling or nephew, you should not offer them less than market rates. Giving a member of your family the benefit of low payments through an IRA asset could be considered self dealing.

Bruce heard an unusual example of someone who was taxed for self dealing. An investor owned a commercial building, and his IRA owned the let next to it. The investor would park in the lot next door, and that was considered illegal personal use. You are not allowed to gain a personal benefit from your IRA while the IRA is growing. If a mistake like this occurs, you have 14 days to correct it. However, if the custodian was the cause of the mistake, then you can argue in court that the custodian should be held responsible.

Tom’s company will not accept any member that is not a part of a regulated institution. If he did not check to determine whether or not his members were being regulated, many bad people would have the opportunity to deal through them. A non-regulated company may enter into an agreement with a bank who is a custodian. All banks, credit unions and trust companies are automatically qualified to hold IRAs. If you are not one of those institutions, then you must be authorized by the IRS. There are 257 mutual fund companies, insurance companies, and broker dealers that are licensed by the IRS.

It is good business to protect the consumer, and the government supports that mentality. PENSCO will not help someone enter into a prohibited transaction. If a lender was involved in a prohibited transaction on an IRA, then they would be subject to a 15% tax on the amount of the transaction. So a lender that made a $100,000 bill would receive a $15,000 bill. If the lender was not aware of the prohibited transaction, then they may be exempt from the tax.

When an investor is told that he cannot buy a property from himself with his IRA, he may get the idea of having a friend buy his property, and then re-buying from his friend. However, this is still considered an illegal transaction. This is considered a linked transaction by the IRS. You will not go to jail for performing a transaction like this unless you fail to pay the penalty taxes. However, the IRS tends to not inform you of your mistakes until 3 years later, so you can get caught off guard if you are not careful.

If you buy a property through your IRA while using your brother as a lender, you will not be taxed so long as your brother does not receive more than his regular fee.

A Prohibited Transaction Exemption (PTE) is a request submitted to the Department of Labor when you anticipate that your potential transaction may be prohibited. A PTE is usually granted on the basis that there is no increase or decrease in value because of the transaction. You cannot submit a PTE after the transaction takes place. The exemption comes in writing, so the Good Day rule does not apply.

There are some custodians who offer check book IRAs. Tom believes this practice will probably be extinct soon. There are only two custodians Tom knows of that will do check book IRAs, and PENSCO is one of them.

Tom’s website is www.penscotrust.com

For more information about The Norris Group’s California hard money loans or our California Trust Deed investments, visit the website or call our office at 951-780-5856 for more information. For upcoming California real estate investor training and events, visit The Norris Group website and our California investor calendar. You’ll also find our award-winning real estate radio show on KTIE 590am at 6pm on Saturdays or you can listen to over 170 podcasts in our free investor radio archive.

203-TNG Radio – Tom Anderson 12-04-10

Friday, December 3rd, 2010

Tom Anderson

Chairman and Founder of PENSCO Trust Company


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This week Bruce is joined by Tom Anderson. Tom is the chairman and founder of PENSCO Trust Company. He is considered by many to be the national expert on the topic of self directed IRAs. He focuses on how investors can increase their wealth-building potential with real estate and private equity investments. He has written articles for nearly all nations and financial magazines. He was recently invited to Washington as part of the “Future of Finance Initiative” for the Obama Administration.

Tom has been in the banking business for 41 years and in the self-directed investment business for 22. The government is paying more attention to retirement issues, because there is concern over social security. Unfortunately, we are still in the dark ages in regards to knowledge of self directed investments. Many people are surprised by the idea that you can buy mutual funds with your retirement account. Many Americans are unhappy with being locked into their 401Ks, other pension plans, and other IRAs. Those retirement plans only offer a limited range of investments, and most of the options are related to Wall Street, which many people have lost a lot of money on recently. The only commodity that hasn’t taken much damage is gold, but Tom thinks most people didn’t get into Gold until after it had already experienced increases, so gold probably won’t be a good long term investment.

When Tom was in Washington, he was surprised by how interested the government was in hearing about his industry. The Retirement Industry Trust Association, which represents 90% of the self-directed custodians in the U.S., was invited to write a white paper on the need for more diversification in retirement accounts. Unfortunately, many of the government workers that Tom was speaking to before have been replace, so he has some influential ground to recover. He does feel though that the government in general has become more open to new ideas on improving retirement savings. As the president of the RITA, it is Tom’s goal to use any opportunity to discuss retirement issues with the government.

IRAs were created in 1974 as part of the ERISA Act. You could self direct an IRA back then. You could buy real estate in New Zealand if you desired to, but most people weren’t aware of that, because the securities and mutual fund companies began lobbying against real estate as a prudent retirement investment plan.

Real estate is a great long term investment. Real estate generally out paces the stock market on a long term basis. In California, you can buy properties that cashflow. When there is a down turn, it’s a great time to take advantage of real estate and ride the curve up.

Before 1974, there were pension plans but no IRAs. One of the reasons IRAs were created was because trustees were abusing their privileges. The trustees were spending the money they received to buy yachts and they would frequently lose the money given to them. Because of this, the government felt it was necessary to allow people to save on their own.

Self-directed is a frequently misunderstood word. IRAs are IRas regardless of where they are held, and the rules are dictated by the IRS. Depending on where the IRA is held, the custodian may limit what an investor can do with their IRA. There are two types of self-directed IRAs. The first is known as a self-directed brokerage account. With a self-directed brokerage account, you can pick from stocks and mutual funds to invest in, but you cannot invest in real estate or private equity. The other type of IRA allows you to invest in anything permitted by law. Some of Tom’s clients have bought companies in Spain and properties in New Zealand. When you buy outside the country, you have to consider the exchange differences. If the foreign monetary value increases against the U.S. dollar, then you can profit from both the investment and the monetary change.

There is a level of sophistication required to invest in certain categories. Tom encourages people to stick to what they know. If you own a gas station and know about gas as an investment, then you may want to use your IRA to invest in another gas station.

There are some laws regarding who and how you can deal with your IRA. There is that limits one’s ability to work with more than 3 unaccredited investors. In some cases, you cannot work with any unaccredited investors. To be an accredited investor you must have a minimum net worth of $1 million, and at least $200,000 in income for the last two years. The SEC may change their definition of “accredited investor”. Tom believes the requirements for an accredited investor will increase, because many people have lost money in stocks and private equity.

If someone wants to buy a trust deed or rental unit, they are free to do that, even if they only have $80,000 in their account.

Tom believes that IRAs are a great form of capital formation in the U.S. PENSCO started out with no assets and now has $3 billion worth of assets. PENSCO is also now funding thousands of companies that could not be started without IRAs, because they couldn’t get funding from traditional sources. There are about $4 trillion in IRA accounts.

Tom had a client who opened a $300 ROTH IRA. His company charges a $375 fee, so Tom knew the client must have had a plan. The client instructed PENSCO to send a $10 check to a lawyer in order to consummate a real estate option contract. This contract gave them the right for 30 days to buy property from a developer. The developer needed cash for $350,000. While the contract was being negotiated, the client found a buyer for a property for $525,000. Once he took the $525,000 from the buyer, he paid the seller $350,000, and moved the profit into his IRA account.

A ROTH IRA offers tax free growth for life and a great rate of return. One of Tom’s clients started a ROTH IRA with $1,800. This client used his ROTH IRA to develop a successful venture, and in 2002, that client cashed out with $32 million. He then took that $32 million and invested in other start ups. He has now increased his IRA holdings into 9 digit levels. Bruce thinks it is hard to believe that the IRS isn’t suspicious of this kind of tax free profit. Tom explains that this client helped create thousands of jobs. This fortunate client stimulated the economy and created tax revenue. 40% of new jobs are from start ups, and 70% are from small, private companies.

We still have 35 days to take advantage of a one time opportunity. Your IRA is now a portable pension plan, and can be converted into a ROTH IRA regardless of your income. Before 2006, this was not allowed. Before January 2010, if you made more than $100,000, you were prohibited from such conversions. You also have the opportunity this year to do the conversion to ROTH IRA and defer the taxation on the converted amount to 2011 and 2012. This means that if you convert in 2010, then in 2011 you must claim 50% of the converted amount on your income. The other 50% of the 2010 amount must be claimed in 2012. If you are expecting to be in a lower tax bracket in the future, this is a great opportunity for you. The government is very supportive of these conversions, because they get to collect the tax upfront.

If you bought assets that are currently depreciating, and if you have these assets in your IRA, then you can convert to a ROTH IRA and pay tax at a lower amount. This can allow those assets some time to recover. It is much better to convert a depreciated asset than an appreciated asset.

Capital gains rules do not apply within an IRA. When you take money out of an IRA, that money is taxed at a normal rate. However, if you have a ROTH IRA that has existed for 5 years, and if you are at age 59 and a half, then you can take out all your money tax free.

If you have a traditional IRA, at age 70 and a half, you have to take out minimum distributions. However, if you have a ROTH IRA, you can leave the money in the IRA as long as you want, and you can leave it to your children after you have died. There is also no estate tax, because the taxes have already been paid.

The use of leverage to purchase real estate is allowed with a ROTH IRA. It is possible to borrow up to 70% on any income producing property types on an IRA. You must put at least 30% down on the property though, because if the loan is recourse, then you would be self-dealing, which is prohibited. The 70% limit is according to bank policy, and they have had great success with this limit. They have very few foreclosures. Rates for loans are generally two points above prime. Many things can be negotiated as well.

There is actually a rule which allows you to bail out you IRA. If you got a 70% loan on a $100,000 house, and you put $30,000 down with your IRA. If you lose your tenant, and you do not have enough money in your IRA to make the payment, then you would typically be foreclosed on. In this kind of situation, there is a Department of Labor provision called AD-26, which allows you to lend money to your own IRA without limitation, so long as the money is being used to bail out the IRA account.

For more information about The Norris Group’s California hard money loans or our California Trust Deed investments, visit the website or call our office at 951-780-5856 for more information. For upcoming California real estate investor training and events, visit The Norris Group website and our California investor calendar. You’ll also find our award-winning real estate radio show on KTIE 590am at 6pm on Saturdays or you can listen to over 170 podcasts in our free investor radio archive.

The Norris Group Real Estate News Roundup 8/9/10

Monday, August 9th, 2010

Today’s News Synopsis:

The percentage of American single-family homes with mortgages in negative equity decreased by 1.8% from the first to second quarter.  Freddie Mac is requesting $1.8 billion in federal aid after a $6 billion loss in the second quarter. Freddie Mac’s single-family inventory rose by 84.2% and its multifamily inventory doubled from last year. PIMCO fears the U.S. may be entering a period of deflation, and JPMorgan Chase expressed concerns that our financial system may crash in 2015.

In The News:

MSNBC - “Fewer U.S. homeowners have ‘underwater mortgages’” (8-9-10)

“The percentage of American single-family homes with mortgages in negative equity fell to 21.5 percent in the second quarter from 23.3 percent in the first quarter and 23 percent a year ago, according to the Zillow Real Estate Market Reports.”

Los Angeles Times“Freddie Mac requests $1.8 billion in aid after loss” (8-9-10)

“Government-controlled mortgage buyer Freddie Mac is asking for $1.8 billion in additional federal aid after posting a larger loss in the second quarter. Freddie Mac said Monday it lost $6 billion, or $1.85 per share, in the April-to-June period. That takes into account $1.3 billion in dividends paid to the Treasury Department. It compares with a loss of $840 million, or 26 cents a share, in the second quarter a year ago.”

Housing Wire“Flooded with Housing Inventory, Freddie REO Sales Surge Despite Foreclosure Alternatives” (8-9-10)

“Year-over-year, Freddie’s single-family portfolio increased 84.2% and the multifamily portfolio doubled. Monday morning’s quarterly results reveal a 655% increase in forbearance agreements, where distressed homeowners simply get more time to begin paying back the mortgage. These forbearance agreements numbered 21,673 at the end of the first half of 2010, up from 2,869 at the end of the first half of 2009.”

Housing Wire - “The Scope: JP Morgan Estimates Nearly 9m Mortgages Eligible for New FHA Refinancing” (8-9-10)

“There is $870bn worth of underwater mortgages that could be eligible for the new Federal Housing Administration (FHA) short refinance program announced last week, according to JPMorgan. Additionally, there could be as many as 8.9m loans eligible for the program, worth an aggregate balance of $2.3trn, which includes underwater borrowers and mortgages eligible for the Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP).”

Housing Wire“Zillow Sees 3.6% Dip in US Home Prices as More Underwater Mortgages Come up for Air” (8-9-10)

“For the 14th consecutive quarter, national US home values declined 3.2% year-over-year during Q210, according to a quarterly market report produced by real estate listing website Zillow. The average sales price for residential properties was $182,500 during the quarter, down 0.6% from the Q110 price of $183,700. In Q210, 21.5% of mortgage properties were in negative equity positions, compared with 23.3% in Q110.”

Housing Wire“PIMCO: US On Verge of Turning Japanese?” (8-9-10)

“The US may be nearing a long period of limited growth with the risk of deflation that would bring the nation’s economy very close to that of Japan during the 1990s, according to investment-management firm PIMCO.”

Housing Wire“Monday Morning Cup of Coffee” (8-9-10)

“Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke said there are options to re-shape US housing finance that don’t involve government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. ‘There are a variety of organizational forms that might replace Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that could likely provide mortgage credit without the systemic risks associated with these institutions in the past,’ Bernanke said in a July 23 letter to Ohio Democrat Rep. Marcy Kaptur, according to reports by multiple media reports.”

Bloomberg - “Crash of 2015 Won’t Wait for Regulators to Rein in Wall Street” (8-9-10)

“The financial system experiences a crisis ‘every five to seven years,’ JPMorgan Chase & Co. Chief Executive Officer Jamie Dimon told the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission in January. By that measure, the next crash could come by 2015 — years before new banking reforms are in place. Many of the measures ordered by Congress and global regulators, aimed at cushioning the financial system in future crises, are years away from being implemented. The Basel Committee on Banking Supervision plans to give the world’s banks until 2018 to comply with limits on how much they can borrow.”

Orange County Register“Real estate loss hammers Calif. pensions” (8-9-10)

“The $200 billion California Public Employees’ Retirement System (CalPERS) earned 11.4 percent return in the year ended June 30 — despite losing 37.1% on its real estate bets through March 31. The $130 billion California State Teachers’ Retirement System (CalSTRS) was up 12.3 percent in the same year after losing 12.4% on its property holdings.”

Orange County Register“Unsold homes up 57% this year” (8-9-10)

“The number of homes for sale on the Orange County housing market has mushroomed to 11,414 in the 30 days ending last Thursday. That’s up 57% since ‘inventory’ began a steady rise at the start of the year, according to the latest report by Altera’s Steven Thomas.”

For more information about The Norris Group’s California hard money loans or our California Trust Deed investments, visit the website or call our office at 951-780-5856 for more information. For upcoming California real estate investor training and events, visit The Norris Group website and our California investor calendar. You’ll also find our award-winning real estate radio show on KTIE 590am at 6pm on Saturdays or you can listen to over 170 podcasts in our free investor radio archive.

186-TNG Radio – Daniel Phelan 8-7-10

Friday, August 6th, 2010

Daniel-Phelan

Daniel Phelan

CEO of Pacific Southwest Realty Services


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September 17th, 2010, The Norris Group returns with its award winning event I Survived Real Estate 2010. The Norris Group has assembled an incredible line up of industry experts to discuss the state of REO from the inside. Topics will include regulatory intervention and aftermath, bulk buying, myths and facts, and opportunities emerging for real estate professionals. 100 percent of the proceeds support the Orange County affiliate of Susan G. Komen for the Cure. This event would not be possible without generous help from the following platinum partners: Foreclosure Radar and Sean O’Toole, the San Diego Creative Real Estate InvestorsAssociation and Bill Tan, Investors Workshops and Shawn Watkins and Angel Bronsgeest, Invest Club for Women and Iris Veneracion and Bobby Alexander, San Jose Real Estate Investors Association and Geraldine Barry, Claudia Buys Houses, Frye Wiles, MVT Productions, and White House Catering.

This week Bruce is joined by Daniel Phelan. Daniel is the CEO of Pacific Southwest Realty Services. He is responsible for this company’s mortgage operations. Pacific Southwest Realty Services is an investment firm focused on commercial real estate. It represents and advises both real estate clients and institutional investors in debt. It is involved in equity placement, strategic planning, property sales and loan administration.

In 2006, Daniel’s company was heavily involved in the financing of commercial real estate. His company financed $1.5 billion of commercial real estate per year for every year of the boom.

Daniel does not think that investors perceived a high level of risk in the prices they were paying for real estate during the boom. Prices had been steadily increasing since July 1993. Commercial real estate had a continuous growth pattern all the way to 2007. If you had only been in the business for 15 years and had only seen positive growth, then you probably wouldn’t feel at risk.

The lending side was probably looking at the boom similarly. There was a lot of competition, because Wall Street entered the market. There was a tremendous amount of debt capital in the market, and it was extremely competitively priced. These prices made real estate investments that much more enticing. People saw the need to get their capital invested in some form, and commercial real estate was perceived to be a safe investment.

In 2006 to 2007, down payments were reduced because of the confidence of the market. Borrowers were getting into commercial properties with only 20 percent. Historically, you could probably get most properties financed with 25 to 30 percent down. However, 75 percent is considered to be a more appropriate and safe number.

There are two tiers of debt. Most banks is recourse, but most non-bank debt is nonrecourse. 99.9 percent of the debt for life insurance companies and pension funds is nonrecourse. Because Daniel’s company works with these kinds of firms, they could only look to the real estate for satisfaction of a debt following a default. From 2005 to 2007, many banks backed off their recourse loans and went nonrecourse.

The source of capital during the boom came from portfolio lenders, such as life insurance companies and banks, and nonportfolio lenders, such as securitized lenders and Wall Street lenders. If you were trying to accomplish high loan to value with lower rates, then you probably got involved in the commercial mortgage backed securities market. You would expect a rate of 110-120 over treasuries. Those loans would be pooled into $2 billion pools, and then sold on Wall Street.

Mortgages made near 2006 are not doing well right now. Underwriting standards were very loose at that time. The default rates for those issuances are above 5 percent, and sometimes above 10 percent.

Mezzanine financing can be compared to second trust deed. It is a debt placed behind a first trust deed. It is used for taking cash out of a property, cover tenant improvements, or buy out existing partners to recapitalize the partnership.

During the boom, mezzanine debt could be taken at a 7 to 8 percent rate on the low end. The mezzanine debt today is going for above 10 percent. It is not available for the same loan to value rate. In 2006, you could get 90 percent loan to value. Today, you would be lucky if you got mezzanine debt for 65 percent loan to value. You may not be able to get it at all.

If you intend to occupy a commercial building, you could get 90 percent financing from a bank loan. This is only available to owner occupants, and it is only available in a purchase situation, not a refinance situation. If you were buying a multi-tenant investment property, you probably would get financing from life insurance companies. Banks are beginning to come back to the commercial investment market. With these deals, banks are looking for a full relationship with bank accounts and operating accounts. During the second quarter, the commercial mortgage backed securities market starting coming back. However, this market is not coming back quickly. Daniel’s company funded its first two cmbs loans since 2007.

Daniel’s company always looks at the operating history and income of a property, and then he makes a reasonable expectation of how well that property will operate over time. The projection for those properties is typically not very good. In 2006-07 we had not been hit by unemployment. Most tenants were performing well, and occupancy rates were above 90 percent.

Many commercial loans are coming due in 2012. These loans were underwritten in 2002. These loans are going to cause a big problem. In 2002, underwriting standards were not that “out of wack”. Prices have come down a lot, but they are still greater than what they were in 2002. Daniel think there is plenty of capital to refinance the debt on those properties, and in many cases, lenders are willing to roll over those loans. The bigger problem comes in during 2014 to 2017. During these years, you will have loans on properties with significantly diminished values. At that time, you may start having tenant default issues.

Construction on commercial real estate is not going to perform well. Daniel does not know of any bank that did a commercial construction loan in 2008-09. However, there are some banks now that are willing to loan on a multifamily property now.

Residential real estate is beginning to experience a large number of strategic defaults. Commercial loans are also beginning to default, but not as badly. Commercial property owners can make their payments so long as 70 percent of the tenants are making their payments. Commercial loans are made based on the ability of a property to make income. The commercial property owners that will experience difficulty are the ones that have let go of workers. They may have a large amount of space, but are only using a small portion of it. When their leases come due, these owners will probably move out to a smaller space. This will hurt larger commercial properties.

Most cap rates during the peak were around 6 to 7 percent. For multifamily properties and apartments, cap rates were around 5 percent. As of last year, most cap rates have moved up to 8 to 9 percent. The reason why we have not experienced a dramatic change in cap rates is because of Fannie and Freddy’s involvement.

Daniel believes we are going to see more problems in 2010 rather than improvement. Sales are going to start again, but they are going to have to pay 35 percent down rather than 25 percent.

For more information about The Norris Group’s California hard money loans or our California Trust Deed investments, visit the website or call our office at 951-780-5856 for more information. For upcoming California real estate investor training and events, visit The Norris Group website and our California investor calendar. You’ll also find our award-winning real estate radio show on KTIE 590am at 6pm on Saturdays or you can listen to over 170 podcasts in our free investor radio archive.

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