Joseph Magdziarz | The Norris Group Blog

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197-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2010 10-23-10

Friday, October 22nd, 2010

I Survived Real Estate 2010

(Full Bio)

September 17^th, 2010, The Norris Group returns with its award winning event I Survived Real Estate 2010. The video also now available on The Norris Group website.

The Norris Group has assembled an incredible line up of industry experts to discuss the state of REO from the inside. Topics will include regulatory intervention and aftermath, bulk buying, myths and facts, and opportunities emerging for real estate professionals. 100 percent of the proceeds support the Orange County affiliate of Susan G. Komen for the Cure. This event would not be possible without generous help from the following platinum partners: Foreclosure Radar and Sean O’Toole, the San Diego Creative Real Estate Investors Association and Bill Tan, Investors Workshops and Shawn Watkins and Angel Bronsgeest, Invest Club for Women and Iris Veneracion and Bobby Alexander, Claudia Buys Houses, The Business Press, Frye Wiles, MVT Productions, and White House Catering.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show is broadcasting I Survived Real Estate 2010.

Investors buy about 1/3 of Freddie Mac’s properties. Freddie Mac does not offer financing for most of those investor purchases, but Fannie Mae does. Fannie Mae has a program called Home Path. Many investors can qualify for Home Path financing on rehab properties. The financing on the rehab program includes the cost of repair. It is somewhat similar to the 203K loan. The problem Bruce has experienced with these programs is they don’t offer enough financing to significantly help investors. Bruce is usually only offered about $4,000 for rehab financing.

It is hard to pull a pool of properties together in a way that is just as attractive for an investor as finding one good property.

Inventory levels are increasing. Freddie Mac started this year with 45,000 properties in inventory, but today we have about 70,000. 55% of those properties are in the redemption, eviction and prelist phase. That phase is taking longer now. Approximately 55% of Freddie’s properties are becoming occupied. Freddie has about 15,000 homes on the market, and the rest are in the closing process.

As inventory levels increase, and as the 90-day strategies fail, then Freddie might move to a ballroom or online auction. However, if a property has had sale fallouts or could use significant improvement, then it may be relisted. Freddie’s goal is to figure out what selling strategy will have the best recovery rate. On day 75 of the listing, Freddie gives the broker a two week notice, and then moves onto the auction process.

Fannie Mae has a web-based portal for investors who desire to qualify for bulk purchases. You must provide information about yourself, provide your tax I.D. number, and allow Fannie Mae to do a background check on you. Once you qualify, you are given access to the web-based portal. This portal contains listings of properties, and it allows investors to submit a bid. This portal is for the larger pools. The properties in the pool are located across the country.

Bruce believes that tax payers could be saved a lot of money if properties were sold to investors rather than being given to NSP programs. Sarah Letts suggests that those investors go to the auctions.

In the last 12 month, Fannie Mae sold 30,000 properties to owner occupants during the first look period, and 5,000 properties to people using NSP funds.

Tommy Williams was the person who suggested that Bruce should read The World Is Flat. One of the most significant quotes in the book says, “No institution will go through fundamental changes, unless it believes it is in deep trouble and must do something different to survive.” Tommy believes that no other country in the world provides us with the same amount of opportunity as the free enterprise system of the U.S. That opportunity is built upon the initiative of the individual. We need to focus on turning that individual initiative loose. When you restrict individuals from making free market decisions, there are greater repercussions.

Tommy believes in the auction process. The stock market is like an auction, and everybody agrees with that auction every day. What if tomorrow morning, the DOW Jones said, “If Microsoft doesn’t bring us 25 dollars, we won’t sell”? It wouldn’t work. This is the problem we are dealing with in our current housing problem. Three years ago, the market told us that we had to rethink what houses were worth. Unfortunately, we have found out how accurate the market was worth. Tommy Williams believes that Sean O’Toole’s estimates are accurate, but he wises it wasn’t true. Tommy believes we have a long road ahead of us before we reach real market value. The quicker we get to that value, the better.

“Unfortunately, it has been too long since America had a leader ready to call on our nation to do something hard. To give something up, not to get something more, and to sacrifice for a great national cause for the future, rather than live for today.” – The World Is Flat

Tommy believes that if a politician actually had the courage to stand up and tell America the truth, the citizens would elect that person instantly. Unfortunately, we have been given so much bs that we aren’t accustomed to politicians being honest.

A crisis is a terrible thing to waste. We’ve had two in the last decade – 9/11 and the current financial crisis. Bruce has been to baseball games where everyone stood up after the 9/11 crisis. When we have a crisis, we can make changes, but we have to have someone that we can support in the government.

Thornberg is worried about where our fiscal debt is going. We are borrowing $1.3 trillion this year. We do not currently have that much debt, because most of it is in social security. Our net debt represents about 50% of the economy right now. That seems high, but Christopher doesn’t believe that is actually extremely high. However, if you are borrowing $1.3 trillion per year, that debt percentage will quickly turn into a number over 95%. Unlike Japan, we are a nation relying on external capital. If we keep borrowing, there will come a time where the world bond market will say “enough is enough”.

Thornberg does not believe that household, and local debt is that bad. We do not have that big of a debt problem. Our pensions are in trouble, but other than that, Christopher thinks we are fine. Consumer debt spiked in proportion to asset values. It also fell significantly when the asset bubble popped, and Americans realized they had too much debt. Most of American debt is in mortgage debt from Fannie and Freddie. Non-mortgage debt didn’t really rise at all. Overall, that debt is not too significant.

Stock investments have nothing to do with GDP. When we spend stock profits, that money does not get counted into GDP. When you pay taxes on your stock portfolio, those taxes are recorded in GDP statistics, but then they have to subtract your capital gains income from the total.

Thornberg is worried about where our fiscal debt is going, but he is not sure at what point he would say “enough is enough”. We’ve never had an unmanageable amount of debt, but we’ve also never had a government that is so unwilling to acknowledge the reality of our problem. The government claims it wants to fix the deficit, but it won’t raise taxes. Thornberg is a proponent of paying taxes, and he thinks all the Bush tax cuts should be taken out. He doesn’t enjoy paying taxes, but if the citizens of the U.S. actually have to pay, then we will finally stop the government from spending it. We have developed the delusion that the Federal debt is not our debt. If the government is borrowing $1.3 trillion dollars, a lot of that money will come from the citizens. It would take $4,500 from every citizen to pay that debt.

Thornberg does not believe that deleveraging is deflationary, because leveraging is not inflationary. In the middle of the leveraging binge, Alan Greenspan was worried about deflation. When you pay debt off instead of spend, you can decrease demand somewhat. Reducing demand can reduce the velocity of money, which can cause deflationary pressure. That is why Greenspan went through quantitative easing, and he did a pretty good job.

If you have a willing buyer and seller that come to a fair price together, then you have market value. That definition of market value will never be able to stop a real estate bubble. The Norris Group built homes in Rosamond. In Rosamond, the market should have been $150,000, but Bruce was selling those homes for $280,000. In the commercial world, the appraisal has multiple pieces. You have to calculate for comps, cost of building and income generated. Bruce asks Joseph Magdziarz if he thinks we should change the structure of how we come to the proper value. Joseph believes the definition does need to be looked at. During the boom, California prices escalated quickly, but rental prices didn’t change much. So prices changed a lot, but the underlying value didn’t. Unfortunately, the government created too much artificial demand in the market, and that helped cause the market. We created programs for people who couldn’t afford a home.

For more information about The Norris Group’s California hard money loans or our California Trust Deed investments, visit the website or call our office at 951-780-5856 for more information. For upcoming California real estate investor training and events, visit The Norris Group website and our California investor calendar. You’ll also find our award-winning real estate radio show on KTIE 590am at 6pm on Saturdays or you can listen to over 170 podcasts in our free investor radio archive.

Thank you for being a Gold Sponsor for I Survived Real Estate 2010: Adrenaline Athletics, Benton Investment Group, Community RE-Invest Group, Delmae Properties, Elite Auctions, Entrust California, Everlast Photography, Inland Empire Investors Forum, Keystone CPA, Landwood Title, Las Brisas Escrow, Leivas Financial Services, Mike Cantu, North San Diego Real Estate Investors Association, Northern California Real Estate Investors Association, Personal Real Estate Investor Magazine, Realty 411 Magazine, San Jose Real Estate Investor Association, Rick and LeeAnne Rossiter, San Jose Real Estate Investor Association, Starz Photography, Summit Solutions, Tony Alvarez, Wealth Point, and Westin South Coast Plaza.

Tags: auction, bubble, debt, fannie mae, freddie mac, gdp, Greenspan, Home Path, inventory, investor, joseph magdziarz, market value, norris group, nsp, properties, property, real estate, rental, Sarah letts, SEAN OTOOLE, The World is Flat, Thornberg, Tommy Williams
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195-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2010 10-09-10

Friday, October 8th, 2010

I Survived Real Estate 2010

(Full Bio)

September 17^th, 2010, The Norris Group returns with its award winning event I Survived Real Estate 2010. The video also now available on The Norris Group website.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show is broadcasting I Survived Real Estate 2010.

We are in a bond bubble. This is what concerns Thornberg the most right now. We had a recent GDP revision. Savings rates are close to where they should be. Employment is flat, but incomes are growing. The panic over a double dip this summer was ridiculous. We are on a path to recovery, but we have created so much fear that we now have a bond bubble. We have ridiculously low rates. The spreads between returns on equities and returns on bonds have never been this wide. Either equities are severely underpriced or bonds are severely overpriced. Thornberg believes the bonds are overpriced, and eventually people will figure that out. If rates shoot up quickly, then we will have a big problem.

Real estate affordability is incredible right now. If interest rates went up to normal levels then affordability would go back to normal levels as well. Interest rates could spike from inflation, fears over the federal deficit, or if a sovereign debt crisis in Europe causes risk rates to increase. The problem is that we are relying too much on low interest rates right now.

Joseph Magdziarz spoke next. Despite the problems Joseph’s industry has had with appraisal companies, his industry has experienced growth. Appraisers had some success with getting legislation passed, such as bill 4173. When October 18^th passes, AMCs will have to pay appraisers reasonable fees. Traditionally, when the AMCs have been used, they took all the money from the appraisers. Not all AMCs are bad, but some of them took advantage of people. AMCs were a risk to consumers, because consumers weren’t receiving the best appraisers.

When Joseph is asked to appear before congress, they usually have specific issues they want addressed. These issues are usually related to consumers.

Sean O’Toole was asked to give his perspective on whether or not we’ve done a good job of solving the real estate problem. The Fed has kept a balance sheet on the U.S. and it’s households. We went from $4.5 trillion of mortgage debt in the year 2,000 to $10.5 trillion at the peak. If you look at the number of new homes added, and the increases in income, we should not have gone about $6.5 trillion. That means there is $4 trillion in excess mortgage debt. Sean believes that in the best case, we have only dealt with $0.5 trillion of that excess debt. We have a long way to go before real estate is healthy again.

Sean wrote an article called Foreclosure Roulette: A Game of Extend and Pretend. Sean does not believe that the current levels of REO inventory accurately reflect the delinquency levels. We had foreclosures moving equally with delinquencies until 2008. That was when Paulson said that we shouldn’t force banks to sell these assets in distressed markets.

Currently, our REO statistics do not mean a lot. We have been bouncing around in a range that has nothing to do with delinquencies. The FDIC has loosened up on forcing lenders to get bad assets off their books. Since we changed these rules, foreclosures have stalled.

The treasury has admitted that their strategy for dealing with foreclosures was to not allow them to come out at once. They wanted to slow the process down. A new program is coming out in Fall, which will incentivize banks to write down principals on mortgages. That may have some success. Thornberg believes there will be 3 to 4 million foreclosures coming out. Sean O’Toole believes there will be more than 4 million.

Sean believes these new programs are causing problems. These programs are meant to continue the “extend and pretend” strategy. The government is telling us “hold on, we have HAMP to solve the problem”. HAMP had design flaws from the beginning, and Sean does not believe it was intended to be successful. The government then came out and said, “Hold on, we have HAFA”. HAFA also had design flaws. It was not intended to be successful. Sean will not be fooled by HAMP’s new principal balance reduction. Fannie Mae claimed it would damage people that strategically default.

The average foreclosure in California is $150,000 dollars upside down on a $250,000 house by the time it reaches the courthouse steps. The banks and the government do not want people making the right decision for themselves by walking away. This is why Fannie Mae recently encouraged banks to push through foreclosures. The banks are not actually going to push through foreclosures, but they want people to think they will, so that they won’t strategically default.

Tommy Williams does not understand how we can give principal reductions to people who were irresponsible, but give nothing to the people who were responsible. This will not work in a capitalistic society. Tommy believes that Bruce’s idea was fantastic. Right now, the average American can afford a $150,000 home. However, people are trying to sell their home for over $300,000. All the mortgages in the United States that were selling for over $300,000 equate for 5% of the market. Right now, they are still selling homes for above affordable rates, and they are building homes that are still too big.

After 1992, we built 75% of what we needed for our population growth. The biggest problem is that we’ve been building big homes in the Inland Empire, but what we really need is lower rent apartments closer to urban areas. We are going to need more housing in 2011 and 2012, but not bigger homes. If builders still to smaller town houses, then they could make a living. However, if they do that, the builders will have to deal with zoning boards, local governments who are cashed strapped who want you to fix their streets, sewers, power lines and their pensions.

In 2008, there was very little capital available for commercial properties and there was little liquidity. In 2009, some of those capital sources started coming back. We have more capital available to us today, than we have had over the last 2 years. The problem is that many properties do not qualify for financing. Some properties have leasing issues, and no one will finance those. Most of those nonperforming properties are still in the hands of the owners. The banks will not foreclose on those properties, because they do not have the ability to write those properties down. We are starting to see the banks make progress now, because the Fed is giving the banks 0% interest rates on loans. The 0% interest allows the banks to make a small profit, which allows them to then foreclose on those properties. Dealing with this extended process is going to take even longer, because no one is putting a gun to the banks’ heads.

In the 90s, the rules were different. The FDIC forced lenders to give a notice of default if someone is 100 days delinquent.

In 2012, many commercial maturities will come due. A lot of that debt is from commercial mortgage backed securities. That debt is being held by bond holders. That debt will not be refinanced. A lot of non-refinancable loans are being pushed out for 2 years. CMBS is coming back, but values are not coming back. In 2006 -2007, we made 80% loans on an inflated value. Those properties may be 60 to 70% of what it was in 2007, but it still has a loan worth 110% to value. Just because we have money available to refinance doesn’t mean we can, because we don’t have the values we need.

Thornberg believes that if the people who own this debt just “close their eyes and hold their nose” until 2014, then they will be ok. Daniel says that is just the game that these debt holders are hoping on, but it may not work.

Tags: AMC, appraiser, bond, bubble, CMBS, debt, default, deficit, delinquencies, double dip, employment, fannie mae, FDIC, Federal, foreclosure, gdp, HAFA, hamp, inflation, interest, inventory, joseph magdziarz, real estate, reo, SEAN OTOOLE, Thornberg, Tommy Williams
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194-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2010 10-02-10

Friday, October 1st, 2010

I Survived Real Estate 2010

(Full Bio)

September 17^th, 2010, The Norris Group returns with its award winning event I Survived Real Estate 2010. The video also now available on The Norris Group website.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show is broadcasting I Survived Real Estate 2010.

You must have 2 different criteria for Bruce’s no down payment program in order to prevent foreclosures. The reason why this program will work is because it is set up to serve 3 borrowers simultaneously. Yes, you are going to have a failure rate with a no-down mortgage, but you pick the percentage. When your payment is less than rent, is it going to be 20 percent? Bruce doubts it. But for the sake of argument, let’s say that foreclosure rates are at 20 percent under this program. If 2 million people sign up for the no-down program, and 400,000 people walk away, then let that loan get assumed by the next buyer without qualification. The likely target buyer will be the person who lost their house in foreclosure during the past 3 years. They can’t get new credit, but they might want to return to those “pride of ownership” homes. They will write a check, and save the system from 1 more foreclosure. The original intent of the program is to get first time buyers into a house. The secondary benefit is it will get homes back to the people that lost their homes.

Have you ever noticed that if you have great financing, then you can get more for a property? You could probably get a premium for financing on Bruce’s program.

A secondary feature of this program is that when it goes to trustee sale, the opening bid would be just the back payments. Example: Lets say you have a loan amount of $150,000 at 4.5% interest. 3 months behind, people begin the foreclosure process. 4 months later, the foreclosure sale begins. You’re 7 months behind on the property’s payment, with $1,000 dollars of payment per month. If the opening bid at the trustee sale was only $9,000, how many do you think would revert to the lender? None of them. We would fight over them. At 4.5% financing, that is an amazing deal. Not a large percentage of the sales would get to that point, but they would provide financing to investors; the group that no one wants to finance. Investors would overbid on a situation as competitive as that.

What would we do with the excess money being raised from these properties? Lets not reward people who do not do what they sign up to do. Let’s build a fund for something that does good. It doesn’t even have to be a government program. Bruce frequently sees ads in the newspaper in which wealthy people are encouraged to donate their money. We should donate this money to a nonprofit company who can make this loan. Doing this will cause no losses, and it will end in a yield. Bruce cannot see this program losing money.

Over the next few weeks we will be broadcasting the speeches given by the rest of panelists. These panelists are Peter Wayman, Christopher Thornberg, Joseph Magdziarz, Sean O’Toole, Tommy Williams, Daniel Phelan, and Sarah Letts.

Peter Wayman joined Freddie Mac in January 2010 as Sr. REO Sales Director. In this position, he oversees the design of sales strategies and how they are applied across REO portfolios. His group oversees the retail sales process as well as auction and investor sales. Peter is also responsible for the affordable strategies selling homes to organizations engaged in neighborhood stabilization.

Wayman came to Freddie Mac with 32 years of executive relocation experience working with various organizations including Cartus, Prudential and Citigroup. He was recognized for a lifetime industry achievement and inducted into the Hall of Leaders by Worldwide ERC. Peter is a graduate of Cornell University with a BS in Hotel Administration.

Christopher Thornberg is an expert in the study of regional economies, real estate dynamics, labor markets and business forecasting. In 2006 he co-founded Beacon Economics, an economic research and consulting firm that specializes in real estate markets, local economic development, and public and private policy issues.

Dr. Thornberg has established a reputation as one of the state’s leading economic forecasters. In December 2007, he was appointed to California State Controller John Chiang’s Council of Economic Advisors – the body that advises the state’s chief fiscal officer about critical economic issues facing California. Dr. Thornberg also serves on the advisory board of Paulson & Co. Inc., one of Wall Street’s most successful hedge funds. He has been involved in a number of special studies measuring the effect of important events on the economy.

Joseph C. Magdziarz, MAI, SRA is the President Elect of the Appraisal Institute. Magdziarz has been an active member of the Appraisal Institute for 38 years. He has served in a variety of capacities at all levels of the organization.

At the regional level, Magdziarz has served two terms as Regional Vice Chair and two terms as Region III Chair. He has also been a regional representative for many years. On the national level, Magdziarz served two terms on the Appraisal Institute’s National Board of Directors. He has served as Chair of the Education Committee for five years and has also chaired the National Audit Committee, Instructor and Faculty Committees, and Education and Publications Committees. In addition, he has served on a number of project teams.

Mr. Phelan is President and CEO, charged with the day-to-day leadership of Pacific Southwest Realty Services mortgage operations. Pacific Southwest Realty Services is an investment firm focused on commercial real estate, representing and advising both real estate clients and institutional investors in debt and equity placement, strategic planning, property sales and loan administration. Pacific Southwest Realty Services brings competence and integrity to helping Investors and Owners meet their capital needs.

Mr. Phelan joined Pacific Southwest Realty Services in September 1973 after graduating with a B.S. from Creighton University and has been working in the mortgage banking industry ever since. He is both a Certified Mortgage Banker (CMB) and a Charter Realty Investor (CRI) and has been very active and has held various positions in the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA), California Mortgage Bankers Association (CMBA), local building industry trade groups and the CRI Society Board.

Thomas L. Williams is a graduate of Penn State University (B.S. Animal Science) and the Certified Auctioneers Institute (CAI). Representing the third generation of Williams family auctioneers dating back to the mid-1800s, Williams is also a graduate of the historic Reppert School of Auctioneering. He has over 40 years experience in real estate auctions, land development and real estate investment. He currently serves as Immediate Past President of the National Auctioneers Association.

A founding partner of Williams & Williams, Williams served as president from 1986-2000, and became board chairman in 2001. He also co-founded and served as managing partner of Lowderman & Williams Auctioneers from 1965-85. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in all 48 of the contiguous United States and Canada, and is an advisor to auctions conducted throughout Western Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

Sean O’Toole is Founder & CEO of ForeclosureRadar.com, the only company that tracks every foreclosure in California with daily updates on all foreclosure auctions. Prior to ForeclosureRadar Sean spent 15 years building and launching software companies before entering the foreclosure business in 2002 where he has successfully bought and sold more than 150 foreclosure properties.

Sarah Letts is responsible for implementing Fannie Mae’s neighborhood stabilization strategies including pool sales of REO to government entities, land banks, and nonprofits. She joined Fannie Mae in 1999, and prior to her current position, she specialized in debt financing and equity investments for affordable housing. Before joining Fannie Mae, Sarah developed affordable housing on behalf of community development corporations in Los Angeles and Chicago. Sarah received bachelor’s degrees from Stanford University in economics and political science and a masters degree from UCLA’s graduate school of architecture and urban planning.

Thornberg was the next speaker for the event.

Thornberg begins by disagreeing with Bruce over his zero down program. He explains that FHA loans have been spiking over the last 10 years. Bruce asks, “What about the first 35 years?” Thornberg believes that the activity over the last 5 years is the most relevant, but Bruce believes it is the pricing structure that is most important.

Paul Romer from Stanford University once said, “A crisis is a terrible thing to waste.” Thornberg believes we have wasted our most recent crisis. We keep hearing how the consumer has taken over too much debt, but this is not the case. We learned in the Great Depression that banks should not be allowed to leverage up. Leveraging up turns a small problem into a huge one.

In 1960, of all private sector debt in the U.S., 10% was from the financial sector. In 2007, the financial sector represented 43% of outstanding private sector debt. Consumers didn’t really leverage that much.

We still haven’t really addressed the problem of leveraging. After Lehman Bros fell, they created TARP, and handed money to the organizations causing the problem.

Bruce has a hard time understanding how inflation emerges when it is difficult for wages to increase, and when it is difficult for businesses to ask for product increases. Because Bruce read a book given to him by Thornberg, he now understands that inflation actually drives both of those things. Inflation occurs when the quantity of money rises more rapidly than output. This is known as real GDP. The more rapid the rise in the quantity of money per unit of output, the greater the rate of inflation.

Bruce asks, “If Milton Freedman was looking at Japan’s growth of money over the last 20 years, haven’t they created a lot of money?” Thornberg replies, “no”. Economists agree that the problem with Japan’s central bank is that they have been unwilling to poor liquidity into the economy. Japan went through a period of quantitative easing. All their cash sat in banks as a form of excess reserves. Japan’s banks refused to let money leave their reserves, and so their money supply did not expand.

In Argentina, the government prints money and they spend it directly. That is automatically inflationary, because it is instantly being put into the economy.

Ben Bernanke was once known as “Helicopter Ben”, because he had an interesting proposition. If you quantitave ease with the banks, they may not lend it out. If they don’t lend it out, you can give the money to the government to spend, or you can fly around in helicopters and throw the money out in bags. Thornberg does not think that this is a bad idea. One might even argue that this is a better idea than giving the money to the banks or letting the government spend it.

Right now, we are going through a period of quantitative easing. Our government poured money into the banks, and most of it is sitting in the reserves. However, some of the money has gotten into the money supply. As a result, we are staying in the 1 to 2 percent growth range, which is not deflationary.

Thornberg believes price levels can be effectively controlled by policy, if you are willing to go far enough. Ben Bernanke has stood in front of congress, and has announced that he will go far enough. If he sees any hint of deflation, he will pour more money into the system. If he has to go up in a helicopter and throw it out, he will. Ben Bernanke has an incredible amount of control over the price level. The biggest potential problem is that if he fights it too dramatically, then he could set off inflation. At this point in time, Thornberg thinks Bernanke has done a great job with keeping things balanced. Inflation might be a little too low, but we haven’t gone into an unhealthy range of inflation or deflation.

If Bernanke had not poured trillions of dollars into the system, we may have gone into a deflationary situation. That would have lead to deeper problems inside the economy. Bruce worries that we may be mortgaging our future, but Thornberg is not concerned about this, so long as Bernanke is willing to pull the money out at the right time.

Thornberg is not concerned about what Bernanke is doing with the Fed’s cash, but he is concerned about the fiscal problems that may develop. Fiscal changes occur when congress chooses to spend $4 trillion, but only tax $2.7 trillion. In this case, they would have to borrow the extra $1.3 trillion from the rest of the world. That $1.3 trillion must be paid back. When Bernanke moves money around, he doesn’t cause any future liabilities, because he can withdraw that money.

When Bernanke chooses to withdraw that money, it will have a significant effect on the real estate business and the entire economy. Bruce owns a book named An Antique Book of Interest Rates, which was made in 1955. The lowest interest rate in the book is 4.5%. This is not as low as the rates we have right now. This is what Thornberg is most worried about right now. We are in a bond bubble.

Tags: auction, Christopher Thornberg, credit, Daniel Phelan, down payment, economic, FHA, foreclosure, homeownership, investor, joseph magdziarz, Lehman Bros, norris group, option ARM, Peter Wayman, real estate, recession, reo, Sarah letts, SEAN OTOOLE, stimulus, subject to, subprime, Tommy Williams, trustee, VA, Warrent Buffet
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148-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 11-14-09

Friday, November 13th, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 9 of I Survived Real Estate 2009. This is the final installation of the audio for this event.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Bruce Norris segment of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

Bruce begins by discussing the declining housing inventory. A declining inventory typically means that the market is doing well, because you have multiple offers being placed on homes. We currently have the highest affordability rates in the history of California. The volume of sales has gone up to normal, but we have high unemployment.

Delinquencies have exploded. From July 08 to July 09, we have gone from 5.3 percent to 9.7 percent delinquencies. The inventory of REOs has gone down, because banks have not taken back as many as they should. Some people have not made payments in 14 months. Trustee sales have also declined during this same time period. We had 28,795 trustee sales in July 08 and then we progressed to the 9.7 percent delinquency rate. We are currently 306,000 trustee sales short of where we should be. That averages 25,000 homes going out per month in the future. We have not peaked at delinquencies, and according to reports, we will soon be at 13 percent delinquencies. At 13 percent, we will be releasing 70,000 homes per month. Bruce does not believe that we can have a positive market if these statistics are true.

FHA is going to have a large number of defaults next year. They once had a 203K loan for investors in which investors could buy a property and include the repair bill in the loan. A lot of people would use this kind of loan and they would buy up to 7 homes and use them as rentals. Bruce thinks this would help clear up a lot of inventory.

Bruce thinks that Fannie and Freddie programs should be expanded so that qualified buyers can get unlimited loans. We are currently stuck at 10, and many investors are capped out because they exchanged their homes out of California and moved their investments to another state. Those investors cannot sell their property and come back to California.

We are currently giving away homes for 8,000 dollars. That money is coming from tax payers. Bruce thinks that we should just let people take these homes for no down payment. We will have people walk away, but the next buyer will be able to easily take it. Under this kind of proposed program, it would not matter if the buyer qualified or not because this loan can be continually passed down. These houses could go to investors with a 5 percent interest rate. This program would not have foreclosure, because the problems would be solved by the next buyer. The people who have recently foreclosed on their homes will not be able to qualify for homes, which may keep them out of the market for the next few years. We could just reintroduce these people as buyers if they did not have to qualify. This is not a program that we have never seen before. We are trying to solve this problem by selling the next house to the owner occupant who was shoved into home buying by the nonsense financing of 05 and 06.

We are already doing zero down deals. When Bruce sells a property, he usually pays part of the closing cost. The person getting 3.5 percent down on a 100 grand purchase is getting an 8,000 dollar check; that is better than nothing down. If you just had nothing down and these people qualified, we would get rid of a lot of homes.

Bruce and many other investors believe that we need to get rid of the FHA 90 day flip rule. When an investor fixes a property, which may only take 3 to 4 weeks, and they sell it within 90 days, the investor is believed to be guilty of fraud. The lender has to pay the cost for this, because the investor will subtract the amount that he or she must pay the lender for the property. We need to start looking at investors as people who can help this problem. At some point, we must either choose to not foreclose, or we must pay catch-up in a painful market.

Bruce asks Christopher Thornberg if he expects the dollar to lose value, and how the value of the dollar impacts interest rates. As the trade deficit gets wider, the dollar goes up. Now the trade deficit is going to close, so the dollar will get weaker. There is very little doubt that the dollar will weaken. Interest rates are undoubtedly going to go up. The federal reserve has increased the money substantially and that money is going to cause inflation. The Federal Reserve is either going to let inflation happen, which will raise interest rates, or they will fight inflation by selling the long range securities they bought, which will also raise interest rates. One way or another, interest rates are going to go up. In the shorter run, it will be faster to allow inflation to occur, because that would bail out the asset markets. In 1982, the mortgage rate was 18 percent, because of the fear of inflation.

Bruce thinks that we can absorb a higher interest rate and still have a good real estate market, because the combination with the cheap price could absorb a double digit interest rate, just like in the 70s. Thornberg says that a 1 percent increase in the mortgage rate means a 10 percent decline in prices. Bruce disagrees with this, because between 1974 and 1980 we had a tripling in real estate prices and interest rates doubled. Thornberg tells Bruce that he is talking about the real mortgage rate, which is the mortgage rate minus the rate of inflation.

Bruce asks Thornberg what the statement Unemployment is a lagging indicator means. Thornberg says that means that the labor markets are the last to go into the toilet and the last to dry off. Bruce asks if that means when labor improves, every other category of real estate should have already started to improve. Thornberg says that residential real estate leads commercial. Now, we keep waiting to hear about the collapse in the commercial market, but we are not seeing this at all. Thornberg says that this sort of lead and lag mentality can be exaggerated.

This is why Bruce brought this up, because in the last cycle, employment improved in California from 1994-96 but we did not have a price increase until 1997. If we do not have price increases, builders will not build anything. Bruce asks if you can have an improved labor market if builders do not have any work to do. Thornberg says that these two factors do kind of work together. The prices started to go up after the labor increases from 1994-96. Thornberg reminds Bruce that in the early 90s we lost zero space, defense, and migration. In that market, the real estate was hampered by the excess supply. Thornberg takes issue with the idea that we should subsidize the building of new homes, because he believes that we have too many homes. Thornberg believes it would be a bad idea to subsidize the construction of homes when there is already too much inventory. Bruce says that some builders have been fixing existing inventory, and Thornberg believes that is all the builders can really do.

Robert Toll made 700 million dollars between 2000 and 2007 because he was selling too many houses at too high of a price, and now he wants tax payers to bail him out.

Bruce Norris asks Rick Sharga if people foreclosed for different reasons in 2008 versus 2009. Rick says that the reasons are not as different as the press would lead you to believe. The media has jumped ahead to the next wave of foreclosures. We are looking at a 3 wave foreclosure tsunami. The first wave began in the first quarter of 2006, because of the subprime meltdown and ARMs. The MBA numbers suggest that 33 percent of the new foreclosures are unemployment. That means that 2/3 of the foreclosure activity is not employment related.

What we are really seeing is increasing levels of foreclosure activity from the first wave, which is being made worse from the second wave. The second wave is about to pick up steam. If unemployment peaks around the first quarter of next year, we will see the foreclosures related to that peak around the 3rd or 4th quarter next year. That will be just in time for them to be augmented by the next wave. This next wave will be caused by the option ARMs. Many loans are going to reset, and people will owe more on their reset loans than their original loans.

Strategic defaults are going to be a problem. In the past American culture, people honored their contracts and chose to make their payments. Now people are realizing that the house they bought is worth half of what they owe, and they are wondering if it is in their familys best interest to keep paying. If someone is only 10 percent upside-down on a loan then they will probably stick with the loan, but if they are upside-down by 50 percent then they will probably default.

Thornberg asks people if their credit or their equity will hear quicker. Thornberg says that most of these people will have their credit heal faster. Sharga responded to Thornberg with a story about a Coldwell Bankerk agent that was fired. This agent counseled her customers to default on their current loan after qualifying and buying a second house. Bruce feels that there is still a lot of character being shown in California; a state with a 9.7 default rate that has had a 50 percent value drop.

An economist from the building industry claimed that California needed to build 230,000 homes, but John was only able to build 70 homes this year. Economists who say things like this ruin the credibility of the people in their industry. Bruce feels that people owe more to their industry than they give.

Bruce thinks that now is a good time to buy property even though he thinks property values will go down. There is a combination of good interest rates and prices that make paying for properties an easy thing to do. Bruce thinks that the price declines that are coming will mostly affect the “as is” inventory, because loans will not be available to homes without kitchens.

Right now, investors are not being rewarded for the $35,000 they spend on repairs. The appraisal business is using a broken model which does not allow for proper adjustments on repaired properties. Every sale we have is an anomaly. The neighborhoods that Bruce is buying and selling in contain homes that are worth $60,000, but buyers want Bruce’s property at $130,000 because it has a kitchen and financing. If investors are going to make these improvements in the real estate market then they need to be rewarded for their efforts. The appraisal model being used right now is telling buyers that their decision to buy a repaired property is unwise. This hurts the market because fixed homes make neighborhoods more valuable. If these homes are left unfixed then more foreclosures will occur.

Joseph agrees with Bruce’s opinion that the appraisal process is broken. There is no magic number in appraising that makes it impossible to make a line item adjustment impossible. If an appraiser is going to make an adjustment worth more than 10 percent of the sales price, then they need to give an explanation for that. When there are multiple offers on a property, then an appraiser should consider those offers in their property evaluation. Unfortunately, the underwriters are not allowing these adjustments to take place.

For the final segment of the show, Bruce asks each speaker what they feel the biggest problem in real estate is.

Joseph believes that real estate’s biggest problem is appraisal management companies that hire incompetent people who are not qualified and do not have enough experience. Those people make bad decisions and they ruin deals.

Patt says that it is hard to tell what the biggest problem is. The biggest problem for Patt and many other realtors is getting inventory out of the market place. There are too many short sales that no one knows how to sell. When someone performs a search on the MLS and finds that 75 percent of the properties are being labeled as “subject to short sale”, you have a problem. 90 percent of the time, those sales will not close. The foreclosed homes are easy to get rid of, because a bank owns them, and they have answers for someone who wants the property.

Tommy thinks that the biggest problem is the tremendous volume of deteriorating, empty homes. These homes need to be put into the hands of investors or home owners as quickly as possible, and Tommy thinks that auctions do that very well.

John Young agrees that we need to get through this inventory as quickly as possible. Previously in the show, Bruce proposed multiple solutions to the inventory problem such as zero down deals. He believes that this problem will not be solved by just one helping factor.

David Kittle believes that the biggest problem in real estate is the people who are making laws who do not understand the business, and have never run a business.

Rick Sharga believes that the entire real estate “ecosystem” is imbalanced. Valuations are imbalanced because we have less professional and competent appraisers who are under valuing properties. There is a freeze in the capital market, because lenders are afraid to risk lending money on homes that may not have proper valuations. Hundreds of thousands of homeowners are under water on their loans, and there is too much inventory for the market to buy. He does not believe that there is one central problem that has caused this real estate mess.

Real estate is a boom-bust phenomenon. When times are good, it is very good, but when times are bad, it is very bad. 2001 to 2006 was a phenomenal time for people in the industry, but because of that boom, they are suffering from a terrible crash. From a long run perspective, we are dealing with a mess of rules, regulations, subsidies and taxes. Local governments are constantly pushing all sorts of taxes on builders. Those taxes drive up prices on homes, and as a result, a constituency cannot afford those homes. Then they try to subsidize the price of a home by having an FHA mortgage. You do not want a loan on a house to be a normal loan, so you make it a no recourse loan, but then third party appraisers are more important than what someone is trying to buy a home for. We keep creating problems by trying to fix problems. Christopher believes that we need a massive deregulation of the market. We need to clear these regulations so the market can work efficiently.

Bruce hopes that the investor will have the chance to influence congress. Right now, investors are a very important solution to this problem, but they are currently having trouble. If investors are able to get financing, they will be able to fix homes and prevent them from returning as “for sale” inventory. If investors cannot get financing, then they must either leave these homes alone or they must pay for these homes with cash. Unfortunately, investors have a limited amount of cash to spend.

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn more about our sponsors and speakers.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

Tags: Beacon economics, bruce norris, california building industry association, Christopher Thornberg, david kittle, i survived real estate, joseph magdziarz, legislation, MBA, mortgage bankers association, mortgage brokers association, national association of realtors, Pat Vredevoogd Combs, real estate, real estate information, RealtyTrac, Rick Sharga, robert rivinius, seminar, stimulation, the national auctioneers association, the norris group, Tommy Williams
Posted in Radio | No Comments »

147-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 11-7-09

Friday, November 6th, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 8 of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Bruce Norris segment of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

Robert Toll made 700 million dollars between 2000 and 2007 because he was selling too many houses at too high of a price, and now he wants tax payers to bail him out.

There is a proposal being supported by 16 senators to increase the tax credit to $15,000 dollars for next year. The current $8,000 dollar tax credit started at $15,000 dollars, but it was then taken down to $7,500 dollars, and then it was increased to $8,000 dollars. MBA is supporting an open $15,000 dollar tax credit. That includes owner occupied and second homes. Every time someone buys a house, they spend an average of $7,500 dollars. That money goes into places like Home Depot, Lowes, Porter Paint, and furniture companies. MBA’s economist estimates that if the $15,000 dollar tax credit was approved today, then an additional 400,000 purchases would take place over the next year. $7,500 multiplied by 400,000 is a lot of money. David Kittle would argue that when these people begin to buy these homes that they would most likely be buying a foreclosure. The government is going to have to spend money to bail out that market anyway, so David thinks this is a better option.

Christopher Thornberg believes that this proposal is ridiculous, because you cannot expect the government to continuously subsidize everything. However, Christopher does think that there is a reason for governments to provide these opportunities, because the market can get into a death spiral. Temporary credit causes a short term burst in sales to stabilize the market, but then you must stop subsidizing and let the markets fix themselves.

One year ago, Fannie and Freddie were put into conservatorship. They were not too big too fail. If the government had allowed everything to fail, things would have been ten times worse than they are right now, but these problems would be over by now. We need to allow businesses to fail. Independent lenders are going out of business, because they cannot get warehouse line capacity. This is because the Obama administration has put on a capital requirement which forces these lenders to put a dollar into reserve for every dollar they lend. One year ago, we had 120 facilities that gave warehouse lines to lenders, but we now have only 12. As individual mortgage bankers go out of business, all the money is being funneled to Wells Fargo, Chase, BB&T, Bank of America, and Citi.

Bruce asks Joseph Magdziarz who has the final say as to what a property is worth. Is it the appraiser, the review appraiser, the underwriter, or is there a boss of the underwriter. The problem with government subsidies is that we cannot find the real market. When subsidies are affecting the market, we cannot find the true demand and supply balance. An appraiser usually has the opportunity to observe the property. An AVM is just an awful valuation model that may tell you which appraisal should be reviewed based on statistics. Joseph thinks that it is wrong for lenders to use AVMs to turn down an appraiser’s opinion. You should stay with you appraiser’s opinion, or you should get a review appraisal done. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen. We must remember that government intervention only postpones the eventual. We need to have a free market.

Joseph talked to five major builders in his market area. Most of them build 700 to 800 homes per year. One had taken 3 permits out this year, and he told Joseph that he never wants to own lots and subdivisions. He hired The Appraisal Institute to come up with a pricing mechanism, but he wanted a real value, because he did not believe that he could build his properties for what he could sell them. In most companies, the underwriter has the final say in the value of the property. Bruce asks if there is a boss of the underwriter who can trump the underwriter’s decision. The speaker claims that his company does not do this, but this may be true in other companies. One of the problems that Joseph has come across is that many of the underwriters are not certified, yet they are responsible for second guessing someone who is trained in appraisal.

Bruce asks what happened to the buyer’s ability to look at the market and say, “I’ve seen all the vacant houses that are listed for $75,000 and I want to buy this property at $135,000.” The system is trumping the buyer’s decision as if they have no idea what they are doing. Bruce provides an example of how this problem is affecting his company. Bruce bought a property in Moreno Valley for $50 grand and he fixed with $35 grand. When he attempted to sell the property, he got six offers within 48 hours for $120 grand to $122 grand. From Bruce’s perspective, that states market value. There were six buyers looking at all the market inventory and they thought Bruce’s property was a better deal than the other property’s priced at $120 grand, and they also thought his property was superior to the properties being sold at $75 grand. The appraisal for Bruce’s property came in at $102,000, and the review appraisal came in at $85,000. Bruce would not have been rewarded for his efforts if he sold the property at $85 grand, so he no longer makes the effort to buy and sell in Moreno Valley. The consequence for this is that there could have been a $120 grand comp for the entire neighborhood to enjoy, but now they have a $50 grand comp to look at, because they did not let the buyer determine what market value is. Bruce chose to keep this property and rent it for $1,150 dollars. The value of owning a house is being topped at half of rental value. Bruce thinks that is ridiculous.

Tommy tells Bruce that this problem would not have occurred if the property had been sold through an auction. Auctions are not contingent on financing. Most of the homes that Tommy sells are financing, but the buyer already knows what they are qualified for. In Tommy’s entire life, he has never had an appraiser dispute a house price that was sold in an auction.

Christopher Thornberg says the problem is that the banks worry about the appraisals, and they are not under the assumption that buyers are concerned about the appraisals. If we allowed a system where we had recourse mortgages again, then we would have deals in which buyers could buy houses above the appraisal value. However, the buyer would have to sign a deal which would allow banks to take the buyers assets if the buyer goes bankrupt. Bruce interrupts Thornberg, exclaiming that what Thornberg is proposing is that the appraisal system is correct. Bruce feels that we must respect the buyer’s decision more than that. Thornberg explains that the bank does not know that Bruce had six offers. They are under the assumption that there is only one accepted offer, and the appraisal came in at less than that offer. The bank is worried that if the buyer cannot pay his mortgage, which is half of rent, then they must turn around and they can only sell that property for $85 grand. If the buyer could sign a secondary note, making the deal a full recourse loan, then it shouldn’t make a difference.

Bruce asks John what the percentage of his sale price to his cost is in this market. The sticks and bricks costs about $50 dollars per square foot, but that does not include the land and the additional fees. In Fontana, John has built homes in the last 5 years that are now repos. John’s company tried to sell to people who were qualified and had good FICA scores. At that time, Wells Fargo was very nervous about the Alt A and subprime loan. John’s competitors would sell to anybody including investors and people who were not occupying the properties.

The federal first time homebuyer tax credit allows you to get the credit regardless of whether or not you paid any taxes. The state program only gives you as much credit as you have already paid in taxes. John must decrease his prices to encourage buyers to buy his homes. His homes are more expensive than foreclosures, so he must show the value difference between his homes and foreclosures.

John says that builders are not building 225,000 homes as Chris mentioned previously. Builders are currently only building about 40,000. John’s company will only build about 70 homes this year.

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn more about our sponsors and speakers.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

Tags: Beacon economics, bruce norris, california building industry association, Christopher Thornberg, david kittle, i survived real estate, joseph magdziarz, legilsation, MBA, mortgage bankers association, mortgage brokers association, national association of realtors, Pat Vredevoogd Combs, real estate, real estate information, RealtyTrac, Rick Sharga, robert rivinius, seminar, stimulation, the national auctioneers association, the norris group, Tommy Williams
Posted in Radio | No Comments »

146-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 10-31-09

Friday, October 30th, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 7 of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Bruce Norris segment of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

Robert Toll made 700 million dollars between 2000 and 2007 because he was selling too many houses at too high of a price, and now he wants tax payers to bail him out.

California has a 9.7 percent default rate, and its home values have dropped by 50 percent. Bruce thinks that shows a lot of character, and that there are still plenty of people honoring their contracts.

SOMEONE believes that if they had purchased a home that turned out to be a terrible deal, he would be furious with his banker and the appraiser. The buyer on our system has always been on an island by himself. The Realtor does not have a fiduciary responsibility to the buyer unless they are contractually working with the buyer, the lender has underwriting standards but is not responsible for the buyer to make the payments, and the guys at Bear Stearns apparently did not have any fiduciary responsibility either. SOMEONE’s realtor told him that if you don’t have someone to write a mortgage for you, then use this person. That has worked very well with our system, because everyone played by the rules, but within the last five years, all the rules seem to have flown out the window.

Bruce asks David why 60 to 70 percent of loan modifications fail, and if principal reductions should be part of loan modifications. The lender does have a fiduciary responsibility, because they have buy-back agreements. There are many loans coming back from Fannie and Freddie, and they are asking the lenders to take them. The lenders do have responsibility, but the broker does not. There is recourse for the buyer in situations in which the buyer has committed fraud, and 80 percent of the loans going into foreclosure, in California, have fraud committed on them. That means that loan officers, Realtors, appraisers knew what they were doing. Even many borrowers are knowledgeable of the fraud that is occurring. David gives an example of a gardener who was told that if he stated an income of 15,000 dollars a month and falsely claimed to own a nursery, rather than his true income of 1,500, that when the value of his property went up the person helping him get the loan would split the money made on the deal.

Bruce recently talked to the president of a company in California who just bought a pool of mortgages for 335 million, and their face value was 25 cents or less on the dollar. He was in the subprime business, and he is probably responsible for creating the same paper that he is now buying and making a fortune on. David thinks that is shameful. David thinks that Barney Frank is one of the most intelligent people in Congress, but his policies are wrong. A year ago, 8 out of 10 of those subprime loans were still being paid on time, but now that number is 7 out of 10. It was not the products that were bad, but the subprime product was given to the wrong people. 50 percent of the 30 percent who have failing subprime loans will not lose their homes. That means that 85 percent of the people who got a subprime loan will not lose their house, but the media pushes it the other way.

David thinks that some loan modifications should include principal reductions, but not all. People in David’s industry once manually underwrote loans, and people had to qualify. That is what we are doing today, and we are making the best loans that we’ve made in 15 years.

People are asking lenders and servicers to use tools in a way that they were never designed to be used. Loan modification, forbearance, and workout programs were meant to be used on a case by case basis, but now we are trying to use these programs as mass market products. Now people are looking Obama to wave a magic wand over all the problems that are occurring. Short sales were supposed to be a rare occurrence for when someone has fallen on bad financial times at the same time as their house lost value. Now we are wondering why we cannot ask a single loan officer to do 100 short sales per day, and that is how many files they are getting. The tools we were using to fix this problem were not meant for the volume of activity we are seeing. Tommy believes that auctioneers can help fix that problem, but they have to sell at the proper value. Most people who have invested in the stock market have an equity that is off by 30 percent. Yet stock investors don’t think that the government should come up with some sort of modification or a cramdown for those sorts of mistakes. Tommy believes that people should know that real estate does not always go up. We have sold the concept that when you buy a home it will go up in price, and people have speculated on that concept, which is what caused all the problems we are currently seeing.

Bruce asks Pat if the reason for buying homes has changed. Pat says that it depends on where you live. All real estate is local. In the crazy market areas, some people began to look at real estate as an investment. In places like Michigan, home prices were not sky rocketing, so people simply viewed homes as a place to live in. Pat agrees with Tommy’s perspective on how this real estate problem came about. Realtors have contributed to this problem by telling people that they can easily flip properties.

Christopher Thornberg believes that NAR hires economists to go out and produce ridiculous research, so that it can be used to support prices. The NAR never stood up in 2005 or 2006 and told everyone that there was a housing bubble. Pat believes that the NAR had very valid research. Thornberg debated economists from CAR and NAR who were telling him that there was no bubble. He frustratingly tells Pat that people should not view the NAR as an innocent victim on the sideline that was hit blind sighted by crazy people in California. Pat disagrees with Thornberg’s statement. She believes that the NAR’s economists did research in a credible way.

Tommy Williams moved to Oklahoma in 1985 immediately after he had experienced radical real estate devaluations in Western Illinois. He sold a farm at auction that brought 3,500 dollars an acre, but before he moved to Oklahoma, he resold the same farm for 1,200 dollars per acre. He met a lady who was trying to sell her house and he told her that her house would not sell for what she owed on it. She told Tommy that she had never heard of such a thing as a house that sold for a lower value than what it was bought for, and that she was going to tell congress that there should be a law forbidding homes to be sold for a decreased value. Christopher Thornberg jokingly asks if the woman trying to sell her house was Nancy Pelosi.

The 8,000 dollar tax credit was good for the industry. Bruce asks Pat if we would get the same result on a program involving a qualified buyer with no down payment. Pat is not sure if that kind of program would work. The NAR has seen a lot of qualified buyers sitting on the fence, because the media is saying that prices are going down. The buyers were unsure that they will be making a good investment. Now that the 8,000 dollar tax credit has come in, many of those fence sitters have chosen to enter the market. These new buyers are looking at low interest rates, choice in the market place, and affordability, but now there is less choice because the market is improving. Bruce asks Pat if we need to induce these buyers with a check. Pat would have said no six months ago. It bothers her to think that we need to pay off people to enter the market.

There is a proposal being supported by 16 senators to increase the tax credit to 15,000 dollars for next year. The current 8,000 dollar tax credit started at 15,000 dollars, but it was then taken down to 7,500 dollars, and then it was increased to 8,000 dollars. MBA is supporting an open 15,000 dollar tax credit. That includes owner occupied and second homes. Every time someone buys a house, they spend an average of 7,500 dollars. That money goes into places like Home Depot, Lowes, Porter Paint, and furniture companies. MBA’s economist estimates that if the 15,000 dollar tax credit was approved today, then an additional 400,000 purchases would take place over the next year. 7,500 multiplied by 400,000 is a lot of money. David Kittle would argue that when these people begin to buy these homes that they would most likely be buying a foreclosure. The government is going to have to spend money to bail out that market anyway, so David thinks this is a better option. Christopher Thornberg believes that this proposal is ridiculous, because you cannot expect the government to continuously subsidize everything. Chris thinks that this kind of spinning can cause the market to get into a “death spiral.”

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn more about our sponsors and speakers.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

Tags: Beacon economics, bruce norris, california building industry association, Christopher Thornberg, david kittle, divid kittle, i survived real estate, joseph magdziarz, legilsation, MBA, mortgage bankers association, mortgage brokers association, national association of realtors, Pat Vredevoogd Combs, real estate, real estate information, RealtyTrac, Rick Sharga, robert rivinius, seminar, stimulation, the national auctioneers association, the norris group, Tommy Williams
Posted in Radio | No Comments »

145-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 10-24-09

Friday, October 23rd, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 6 of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Bruce Norris segment of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

Robert Toll made 700 million dollars between 2000 and 2007 because he was selling too many houses at too high of a price, and now he wants tax payers to bail him out.

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn more about our sponsors and speakers.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

144-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 10-17-09

Friday, October 16th, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 5 of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

The next speaker for I Survived Real Estate 2009 was Joseph Magdziarz. He is the 2009 Vice President of the Appraisal Institute, and will become president of the Appraisal Institute in 2011. He has been an active member of the Appraisal Institute for 38 years.

The Appraisal Institute is the largest professional appraisal group in the world with 26,000 members. Last year, the Appraisal Institute had 3,900 new members.

The market conditions today are difficult to figure out. When there are complex issues going on, we need to have experts dealing with them, but we are not getting experts to deal with these issues. The reason why this is happening is because the appraisal management companies want reports within a few hours and they pay very little. The best appraisers are starting to leave the industry because of this.

The HVCC expires in July of next year, and people are not happy with it. Moratoriums are not going to help anything. We need long term solutions.

There are 10 large appraisal management companies in the country. Those companies are advertising jobs to people who can do appraisal jobs quickly and cheaply, so people are taking these jobs in areas that they are not familiar with. This is harming consumers, and it harms everyone in the industry. The government is trying to pass a bill which will regulate management companies, so that they work on a state by state basis, and the appraisal management companies do not like that. If this bill passes, perhaps appraisal management companies will start looking for people of quality to do these jobs. Right now, consumers are paying more from lower quality work, and that is wrong. Perhaps if we present this problem as something that is hurting consumers then we can get this problem fixed, because nobody cares about appraisers, Realtors, and mortgage bankers.

One of the problems with current appraisal standards is that appraisers are using distressed sales as comparable sales. Distressed sales do not meet the definition of market value. If you were to use them, you would have to make significant upward adjustments.

People who are not a member of the Appraisal Institute are 7 to 20 times more likely to have complaints filed against them. Joseph hopes to make appraisals more competent by increasing education. Joseph asks that if anyone has an appraiser who is doing work outside of their comfort zone then they need to file a report with the Appraisal Institute. Anyone who does work outside of there are of competency needs to be reported.

Joseph supports the original HVCC because appraisers need to have pressure taken off of them, so that they can make accurate appraisals. Before, some appraisers were pressured to inflate appraisals.

A lot of the Appraisal Institute’s members had relationships with lenders, and they could talk to the lenders when they had problems. They were not being influenced to do unethical things. Right now appraisers have to register with the state, but they do not need a license. Appraisal fraud is beginning to increase again.

People are being discouraged from filing complaints against appraisers. Mortgage lenders do not want to get involved, but they need to. They need to file complaints with the state, because appraisers must have licenses, and file with the Appraisal Institute if the appraiser is a member.

Appraisers were not reporting listing histories or concessions in the past and that can cause over valuing. Also, not knowing those things can cause under valuing issues. If you do not talk with sellers about what caused them to sell, you can come up with a bad appraisal.

Under HVCC, lenders are responsible for paying the appraiser. Brokers are getting bad appraisers because they are not allowed to pick their appraiser. You should have the right to ask for a competent appraiser. If you are not given a competent appraiser, report the appraiser, report the bank, and report the appraisal management company. Ask your appraiser how long they have been in business and if they belong to a professional group. Fannie and Freddie agree that you should look for appraisers that belong to professional associations, because those appraisers have people observing their activity. Professional associations have more strict ethics than the state requirements.

If you have trouble understanding what a comparable sale is, think like this: “If I can’t buy this property that I’m looking at, what other property would I buy first?” That mentality will give you a good idea as to what a comparable sale is. This requires a competent person who can account for repairs that have been done on a house in a neighborhood full of foreclosures. If a repaired house is being compared to a neighborhood full of foreclosures then an upward adjustment must be made on the appraisal. Joseph thinks that many of the problems that we currently have can be blamed on congress, and their lack of enforcement.

The next speaker on I Survived Real Estate 2009 was David Kittle. David began his mortgage banking career in 1978, and is currently vice president of Vision Mortgage Capital. He has served as a past chairman of MBA’s political action committee, board of governors, and he has served on the board of directors since 2004. David Kittle’s mother-in-law is a 21 year breast cancer survivor.

David Kittle has been privileged to represent 3,000 member companies, and over 400,000 individuals that are members of MBA. During the last year and a half, David has spoken in front of congress 14 years. David’s favorite testimony was on November 19, 2008. Senator Whitehouse came out first and screamed at people saying, “Why can’t you modify these loans?” One of the other people there claimed that David was responsible for the entire collapse of the world economy. Last time the bankruptcy laws were changed was 1978. When David got in the business, he could get you an investment loan or a second home loan under the same terms as an owner occupant loan. People at this testimony called David a scrooge, because people were getting kicked out of their homes. David was taught not to talk back to a senator, but he fired back. He said, “Excuse me, Senator. I haven’t drawn a paycheck in 14 months. I’ve layed off 90 percent of my staff, because I can’t afford them. Don’t tell me I don’t know what these people are feeling. I was smart enough to put money away, I protected my credit scores, and I’m making my payments on time.” The senator that was accusing him sat back in his chair and apologized. 95 percent of David’s members are individual business owners who take risk every day. Senators could care less about David’s industry. They care about getting reelected.

MBA has a mortgage action alliance that is free for anyone who wants to make a difference in the mortgage industry. It is free and you do not have to be a member of the MBA. Got to MBA.org, give them your name, email address, and the names of your family. MBA will write your letter to congress, and they will send it to you, so that you may personally send it to congress. If you do not like the letter then you can edit it. A senator may not pay attention to 100 phone calls, but they will pay attention to 15,000 emails. Your opinion does matter.

People sometimes ask mortgage bankers, “Why can’t you modify more loans?” Mortgage bankers cannot modify loans, because borrowers will not call back. When people do ask for modification, they are already 90 days down the road. When bankers modify the loan, they have to retake the loan application, they have to verify assets, and they have to make sure that their borrowers have jobs. Then they have to run a title. The longer those go out, the more taxes are placed against their property.

David predicts that next year there will be a larger wave of foreclosures. All the brokers got FHA approved, and all the loans that were subprime are being placed under FHA. The government is going to have to bail out FHA next. David thinks that the net worth requirements should be higher, and education and licensing requirements need to be higher.

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn more about our sponsors and speakers.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

143-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 10-10-09

Friday, October 9th, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 4 of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show presents Tommy Williams segment on I Survived Real Estate 2009. Tommy has over 40 years experience in real estate auctions, land development, and real estate investments. He is the founding partner of Williams and Williams Auctions, and he is the immediate past president of the National Auctioneers’ Association. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in 48 states, and has even auctioned for Bruce Norris.

We have two economic systems that are flourishing in the world. One is the China system, which is completely government controlled; all individuals and businesses operate on the government’s direction. We once had the exact opposite of that. The U.S. has risen to the place that it is at because it has always placed the individual as number one. It has always placed private business as number one with government interference.

In Tommy’s opinion, when government interferes with the free enterprise system that the U.S. has we develop a bad problem. Every stock sold today, throughout the world, is sold using an open auction. We can speculate about what the real estate market will be like in the future, but if we are going to help real estate recover we need to get the market to reach the price that buyers think that real estate is worth.

There are two ways that real estate comes onto the market. One way is when a property becomes a liability to the owner. Whenever real estate comes into market because of this reason, it needs to be sold in an auction as soon as possible, by a professional auction company. Realtors need to do everything they can to educated buyers on what they need to know for real estate auctions. Auction companies will want to sell properties for as much as possible, and buyers want properties for as cheap as possible.

When a property is sold, families move into them and repair them, and when those homes are repaired the property value of every home in that neighborhood increases. This is the only way the real estate market will recover.

Tomorrow Chrysler will fluctuate based on what Chrysler is worth. Unfortunately, the government is wanting to interfere with what Chrysler is worth. Tommy was told multiple times that if TWA closed down then we would not be able to fly to many places in America, and that it would be the end of American air travel as we know it. It did eventually close down, but a variety of other airline carriers came out of it, and now the air transportation industry is in better shape than it was before. If we let capitalism flourish, it will dig us out of this real estate downturn based on fair market value.

The next speaker for I Survived Real Estate 2009 was Joseph Magdziarz. He is the 2009 vice president of the Appraisal Institute, and will become president of the Appraisal Institute in 2011. He has been an active member of the Appraisal Institute for 38 years.

The Appraisal Institute is the largest professional appraisal group in the world with 26,000 members. Last year, the Appraisal Institute had 3,900 new members.

The HVCC expires in July of next year, and people are not happy with it. Moratoriums are not going to help anything. We need long term solutions.

Joseph supports the original HVCC because appraisers need to have pressure taken off of them, so that they can make accurate appraisals. Before, some appraisers were pressured to inflate appraisals.

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

The Susan G. Komen “Walk for the Cure” is this Sunday, September 27th at Newport Beach. Donations both small and large are appreciated. You can visit isurvived2009.com to learn how you can still get involved.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

Tags: Beacon economics, bruce norris, california building industry association, Christopher Thornberg, david kittle, divid kittle, i survived real estate, joseph magdziarz, legilsation, mortgage brokers association, national association of realtors, Pat Vredevoogd Combs, real estate, real estate information, RealtyTrac, Rick Sharga, robert rivinius, seminar, stimulation, the national auctioneers association, the norris group, Tommy Williams
Posted in Radio | No Comments »

142-TNG Radio – I Survived Real Estate 2009 10-3-09

Friday, October 2nd, 2009

I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

(Full Bio)

This week The Norris Group Real Estate Radio Show and Podcast presents Part 3 of I Survived Real Estate 2009.

This week starts with a continuation of John Young’s segment. He is the founding partner of Young Homes which is located in Rancho Cucamonga, and he is the Vice President of the California Building Industry Association (CBIA). He has been associated with the real estate business for 30 years.

Many home builders have had to reduce staff in this down turn. John Young has always worked in the first time home buyers industry. His business has picked up because these people can get FHA loans, they have good FICA scores, they have a job, and they have decent credit. There are buyers who couldn’t buy a few years ago who can buy today. In the Inland Empire, prices are still going down because of the large volume that is in those markets.

The California Builders Industry Association (CBIA) is working with the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) to address the inappropriate appraisal practices, and also the acquisition, development, and construction lending crisis that is damaging home builders. Additional credit resources could help home builders greatly.

The inappropriate use of distressed and foreclosed sales in determining new home values is driving down home prices and stalling an economic recovery. NAHB has found that twenty-six percent of builders are losing sales because the appraisals are continuously going below the contract sale price. These appraisal practices are contributing to the credit crisis. Falling appraised home values have lead some financial institutions to stop lending to home builders.

The CBIA and NAHB are calling on government regulators to develop clear and concise regulatory guidelines, which will allow appraisers to develop realistic expectations by accurately comparing homes. CBIA and NAHB supports ideas to help resolve issues pertaining to expiring subdivision maps, reducing unsold inventory, and extending the first time buyer tax credit.

New home builders are now focusing on building on smaller lots with less square footage. They are trying to control the amount of standing inventory, and they are controlling costs and demand less waste. Most private home builders have survived because they had some left over cash from the good times.

Young Homes anticipates that this market will stabilize in two years. John admits that home builders are by nature very optimistic, and that sometimes gets them in trouble.

The next speaker on the show is Pat V. Combs. She is a Realtor with Coldwell Banker. She has worked as a Realtor for 35 years, and she was the 2007 President of the National Association of Realtors.

All real estate is local. Pat can give you a national report, but that is about as accurate as a national weather report. The nation has witnessed 4 straight months of rising existing home sales. The national inventory has decreased from a year ago. These statistics show that recovery is occurring on a broad scale, but not necessarily a regional scale.

The federal tax credit has encouraged 350,000 first time home buyers, around the nation, to buy a home. Pat has been encouraging her children without homes to buy houses right now. Pat has noticed, in Michigan, a lot of entry level buyers getting into the home business. She is not encouraging everyone to buy a house, but anyone who has been “sitting on the fence”, who can qualify for a mortgage, should buy.

When Pat holds open houses, around 5 to 10 people come. Of those 5 to 10 people, 75 percent of them have houses to sell.

Pat expects the total impact of the home buyer tax credit to be somewhere between 300,000 and 650,000 additional home sales in 2009. When you consider that each home sale generates roughly 62,000 dollars in economic activity, that means that around $18.6 to $40 billion dollars are being pumped through the national and local economies.

Cash for Clunkers injected roughly $20 million into the economy. Realtors and home builders are encouraging the tax credit to be extended through 2010, and hopefully the credit will be extended to all home buyers, not just first time buyers.

There is some concern that another wave of foreclosures is going to hit the market place. Pat hopes that the other panelists will be able to give us some options for helping with those foreclosures. We need to resolve problems that have come up because of the new appraisal rules. Realtors are concerned by the out of town appraisers being used, and because of the higher costs that consumers must now pay, and because of the loss of transactions that home sellers and buyers are experiencing because of the appraisal problems. NAR has met with New York attorneys to discuss these problems, but little effort has been made to make changes.

Realtors continue to complain that good credit is not available to good buyers. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are still needed because we need to make the increased loan limits permanent. The current limit is capped at $729.750, and this higher limit will expire on December 31, 2009. It is important for people in high costs states to keep these loan limits high.

Two years ago, FHA was used less than 3 percent of the time. Today, FHA is used over 36 percent of the time. NAR submitted a testimony to the House Financial Services Committee expressing support for increased FHA staffing, and for increased resources to meet rising demand.

President Obama’s proposed Consumer Financial Protection Agency offers the potential to protect consumers from fraud and other deceptive practices, but experts in the real estate industry need to work with Congress to make sure that such an agency supports efficient and effect markets, while protecting consumers at the same time.

Realtors are discovering a new way to do business through the internet, social media, and new applications to methods used in the past. The old mantra “location, location, location” is being pushed into “price, location, price”. Our market places are becoming global. Tweets on new listings are sometimes being answered from China.

The next speaker was Tommy Williams. Tommy has over 40 years experience in real estate auctions, land development, and real estate investments. He is the founding partner of Williams and Williams Auctions, and he is the immediate past president of the National Auctioneers’ Association. He has conducted over 10,000 auctions in 48 states, and has even auctioned for Bruce Norris.

We have two economic systems that are flourishing in the world. One is the China system, which is completely government controlled; all individuals and businesses operate on the government’s direction. We once had the exact opposite of that. The U.S. has risen to the place that it is at, because it has always placed the individual as number one. It has always placed private business as number one with government interference.

The video of the live event is not being aired online HERE.

Here are the speakers involved in the event:

Bruce Norris

President

The Norris Group

David Kittle

2009 Chairman

Mortgage Bankers Association

Pat Vredevoogd Combs

2007 President

National Association of Realtors

Tommy Williams

2008 President

National Auctioneers Association

Christopher Thornberg

Principal

Beacon Economics

John Young

Vice President

California Builders Industry Association

Joseph Magdziarz

Vice President

Appraisal Institute

Rick Sharga

Senior Vice President

RealtyTrac

To Benefit:

I Survived Real Estate 2009 Sponsors

A huge thank you to all of our sponsors who made this event possible.

Platinum Sponsors

Gold Sponsors




		$Women\'s Council of Realtors - Inland Valley Chapter$
Tony Alvarez – The REO Mentor		Mike Cantu
		Awesome Limousines
	National Association of Real Estate Investors

Tags: Beacon economics, bruce norris, california building industry association, Christopher Thornberg, david kittle, i survived real estate, joseph magdziarz, legilsation, mortgage brokers association, national association of realtors, Pat Vredevoogd Combs, real estate, real estate information, RealtyTrac, Rick Sharga, robert rivinius, seminar, stimulation, the national auctioneers association, the norris group, Tommy Williams
Posted in Radio | No Comments »

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Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

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Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

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I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

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I Survived Real Estate 2009

Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

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Fundraiser for the Orange County Affiliate for Susan G. Komen for the Cure

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